I REALLY WANT THIS--badge codes as gift!!! ( Locked)
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Posted by braewe
#1

But we already have this, you say! You can already purchase a badge for someone else, you say! Just get a card and put in that their Christmas Gift will be a badge!

Except. Not really.

I've been wanting this awhile but this year it has really hit home. If I purchase my friend a badge, they CANNOT enter the housing lottery for themselves. It would instead count toward my number of rooms to reserve.

Case #1 Say I get my daughter Sarah, a badge. And I get myself a badge. I can reserve one room. She cannot enter the lottery as she didn't purchase a badge. The room I reserve would be for me, my OTHER daughter, who is volunteering this year and ALSO cannot enter the lottery. That leaves Sarah and her BF out. But what about his badge! He is also volunteering!

Case #2 I want to do my buddy Set a favor. He bought my daughters some things last year and refuses to accept anything monetary back. So gifting him a badge would be /spectacular/ but if I buy it...yeah. He can't enter the housing lottery either.

Solution 1: Allow us to purchase badge codes. Just like online tickets. They award them as prizes, why not sell them?

Solution 2: Allow us to purchase system credit. Just like MMO currency. Good until used. That way they can choose to use it on a badge, or they can volunteer and use it for a true dungeon run or something.

Christmas is coming! Either (or both!) of these ought to be possible! Perfect gift also for that procrastinator who got left behind last year!

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Posted by gib_rebeg
#2

The reason they don't want to give badge codes that can be used by someone else to enter the housing block is because you would see a flood of people doing this to game the system to get a better room number in the lottery.  Then cancel out the badges that have a poor lottery number.

Same reason they charge $10 to cancel a badge. To least cut down on people doing this.

Now I do like the idea of opening a Christmas gift voucher for people.

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Posted by dballing
#3

One simple answer is to switch to only giving system credit for badge refunds. Then you can buy 100 badge-codes if you want 100 shots at housing or event pre-reg, but it's going to cost you quite a bit, and that money will be sitting in Gen Con's hands until next year's badge buys.

You might need to combine that with not being able to use system credit to buy something for someone else (to prevent repooling that stored-value in the parent account) but I can't picture that having a large negative impact.

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Posted by del_grande
#4

Solution 3: send them whatever it costs to buy a badge, and explain that it is meant to be used only to purchase a badge.  If they're really your friends, they'll do this, or at least come up with a convincing excuse why they didn't buy a badge but treated the money as your Christmas gift anyway...

(I was going to say, "Solution 4: send them an IOU explaining the situation, and tell them you will pay for the badge when they buy it", but that just seems a little tacky - especially if they can't go to GenCon for whatever reason and all they have from you is an IOU?)

Question: if you buy somebody a badge code, does it have their name on it?  Otherwise, what stops them from selling the code to someone else?

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Posted by aaronmlopez
#5

Why not just have a Gen Con gift card that the recipient can use for anything on the Gen Con site? I can buy a Walmart gift card and someone can go to Walmart and use it to buy anything they want. If Gen Con would sell gift cards, it would allow people to to give someone "Gen Con money". The recipient can then buy a badge, event tickets, parking pass (gate 10), etc... If they buy a badge, then they will be eligible for the housing lottery.

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Posted by gib_rebeg aaronmlopez
#6

aaronmlopez wrote:
Why not just have a Gen Con gift card that the recipient can use for anything on the Gen Con site?  <...> . If they buy a badge, then they will be eligible for the housing lottery.
Comes right back to the main problem.

How do you prevent people from gaming the system.

I buy 10 gift cards, create 10 yahoo mail accounts. Then create 10 Gencon accounts, (1 for each mailing accounts)

Housing day, see which account of the 11 accounts (Main account + 10 fake) have the best housing number.

Book room with best housing number, then cancel out the 10 fake badges getting refunded.

You can argue "Well they're still paying $10 a lottery chance."

Yes, but I know plenty of gamers who would drop $100 without batting an eye.

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Posted by braewe
#7

But they can do that NOW anyway, right? This wouldn't add that into the mix. I so agree that perhaps it would be better just to buy amounts of credit instead of a badge code.

I could still accomplish the same thing, giving a gen con gift, and actually the recipient would have more options to choose from in how to spend it.

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Posted by dballing gib_rebeg
#8

gib_rebeg wrote:
aaronmlopez wrote:
Why not just have a Gen Con gift card that the recipient can use for anything on the Gen Con site?  <...> . If they buy a badge, then they will be eligible for the housing lottery.
Comes right back to the main problem.How do you prevent people from gaming the system.
I buy 10 gift cards, create 10 yahoo mail accounts. Then create 10 Gencon accounts, (1 for each mailing accounts)
Housing day, see which account of the 11 accounts (Main account + 10 fake) have the best housing number.
Book room with best housing number, then cancel out the 10 fake badges getting refunded.
You can argue "Well they're still paying $10 a lottery chance."
Yes, but I know plenty of gamers who would drop $100 without batting an eye.

But they get refunded to the gift card. So Gen Con is sitting on that money not giving it back to the customer as cash which makes it much less attractive

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Posted by gharris gib_rebeg
#9

gib_rebeg wrote:
aaronmlopez wrote:
Why not just have a Gen Con gift card that the recipient can use for anything on the Gen Con site?  <...> . If they buy a badge, then they will be eligible for the housing lottery.
Comes right back to the main problem.How do you prevent people from gaming the system.
I buy 10 gift cards, create 10 yahoo mail accounts. Then create 10 Gencon accounts, (1 for each mailing accounts)
Housing day, see which account of the 11 accounts (Main account + 10 fake) have the best housing number.
Book room with best housing number, then cancel out the 10 fake badges getting refunded.
You can argue "Well they're still paying $10 a lottery chance."
Yes, but I know plenty of gamers who would drop $100 without batting an eye.

It seems that switching housing registration back to having people actually log in to get a place in line vs just putting every account into a lottery and handing out times the day before (regardless of whether they were actually going to participate in the lottery to begin with) would fix this.

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Posted by gib_rebeg gharris
#10

gharris wrote:
gib_rebeg wrote:
aaronmlopez wrote:
Why not just have a Gen Con gift card that the recipient can use for anything on the Gen Con site?  <...> . If they buy a badge, then they will be eligible for the housing lottery.
Comes right back to the main problem.How do you prevent people from gaming the system.
I buy 10 gift cards, create 10 yahoo mail accounts. Then create 10 Gencon accounts, (1 for each mailing accounts)
Housing day, see which account of the 11 accounts (Main account + 10 fake) have the best housing number.
Book room with best housing number, then cancel out the 10 fake badges getting refunded.
You can argue "Well they're still paying $10 a lottery chance."
Yes, but I know plenty of gamers who would drop $100 without batting an eye.

It seems that switching housing registration back to having people actually log in to get a place in line vs just putting every account into a lottery and handing out times the day before (regardless of whether they were actually going to participate in the lottery to begin with) would fix this.
Problem is, there is no single method that will satisfy everyone.

"Having to be online at the moment it opens and stay online all day long without knowing when I will be-able to get in is unfair to me"

"Having to accept a lottery system is unfair to me"

"I have disabilities, this is unfair to me"

"I have attended for a very long time, this is unfair to me"

"I travel a long ways, this is unfair to me"

"I run events, this is unfair to me"

In the end, everyone wants preferential treatment that benefits them more then others. And this whole housing issue goes in circles every single year. Because no single method is "Fair to me".

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Posted by gharris gib_rebeg
#11

gib_rebeg wrote:
gharris wrote:
gib_rebeg wrote:
Comes right back to the main problem.How do you prevent people from gaming the system.
I buy 10 gift cards, create 10 yahoo mail accounts. Then create 10 Gencon accounts, (1 for each mailing accounts)
Housing day, see which account of the 11 accounts (Main account + 10 fake) have the best housing number.
Book room with best housing number, then cancel out the 10 fake badges getting refunded.
You can argue "Well they're still paying $10 a lottery chance."
Yes, but I know plenty of gamers who would drop $100 without batting an eye.

It seems that switching housing registration back to having people actually log in to get a place in line vs just putting every account into a lottery and handing out times the day before (regardless of whether they were actually going to participate in the lottery to begin with) would fix this.
Problem is, there is no single method that will satisfy everyone."Having to be online at the moment it opens and stay online all day long without knowing when I will be-able to get in is unfair to me"
"Having to accept a lottery system is unfair to me"
"I have disabilities, this is unfair to me"
"I have attended for a very long time, this is unfair to me"
"I travel a long ways, this is unfair to me"
"I run events, this is unfair to me"
In the end, everyone wants preferential treatment that benefits them more then others. And this whole housing issue goes in circles every single year. Because no single method is "Fair to me".

At the very least, unless you are one of the people who are trying to cheat the system everyone can pretty much agree that everyone should get no more than one spot in the housing lottery, and that only people who actually want and are able to actually book rooms through the housing lottery should get entered into it. What I suggested accomplishes both.

Mind you, this is assuming that we all continue to ignore the core housing issue problems.

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Posted by miked gharris
#12

gharris wrote:
gib_rebeg wrote:
gharris wrote:
gib_rebeg wrote:
Comes right back to the main problem.How do you prevent people from gaming the system.
I buy 10 gift cards, create 10 yahoo mail accounts. Then create 10 Gencon accounts, (1 for each mailing accounts)
Housing day, see which account of the 11 accounts (Main account + 10 fake) have the best housing number.
Book room with best housing number, then cancel out the 10 fake badges getting refunded.
You can argue "Well they're still paying $10 a lottery chance."
Yes, but I know plenty of gamers who would drop $100 without batting an eye.

It seems that switching housing registration back to having people actually log in to get a place in line vs just putting every account into a lottery and handing out times the day before (regardless of whether they were actually going to participate in the lottery to begin with) would fix this.
Problem is, there is no single method that will satisfy everyone."Having to be online at the moment it opens and stay online all day long without knowing when I will be-able to get in is unfair to me"
"Having to accept a lottery system is unfair to me"
"I have disabilities, this is unfair to me"
"I have attended for a very long time, this is unfair to me"
"I travel a long ways, this is unfair to me"
"I run events, this is unfair to me"
In the end, everyone wants preferential treatment that benefits them more then others. And this whole housing issue goes in circles every single year. Because no single method is "Fair to me".

At the very least, unless you are one of the people who are trying to cheat the system everyone can pretty much agree that everyone should get no more than one spot in the housing lottery, and that only people who actually want and are able to actually book rooms through the housing lottery should get entered into it. What I suggested accomplishes both.Mind you, this is assuming that we all continue to ignore the core housing issue problems.
except your proposal of going back to the old system doesn’t do this.  All you need to do is log in at 1 min before housing opens, open 10 browser windows and hit refresh until you get in.  And how do you tell the “people who actually want and are able to actually book rooms” from the groups who all login with the 10 browsers all grabbing rooms and around June get together and decide which has the best room and then releasing all the other rooms they have booked.

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Posted by gib_rebeg gharris
#13

gharris wrote:
At the very least, unless you are one of the people who are trying to cheat the system everyone can pretty much agree that everyone should get no more than one spot in the housing lottery, and that only people who actually want and are able to actually book rooms through the housing lottery should get entered into it. What I suggested accomplishes both.Mind you, this is assuming that we all continue to ignore the core housing issue problems.
There are lots of people playing the system. Even the rule that you are not allowed to "Sell" a booked DT room is by-passable

https://www.roomertravel.com/

And there are yearly people who use multiple accounts to try and bypass the hotel system.

I would love to see a report from Gencon the day they announce hotel lottery numbers on the number of cancelled badges they see.

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Posted by gharris miked
#14

miked wrote:
except your proposal of going back to the old system doesn’t do this.  All you need to do is log in at 1 min before housing opens, open 10 browser windows and hit refresh until you get in.  And how do you tell the “people who actually want and are able to actually book rooms” from the groups who all login with the 10 browsers all grabbing rooms and around June get together and decide which has the best room and then releasing all the other rooms they have booked.

Actually, it does exactly that.

If you go back to the old system where everyone has to log in when housing goes live vs just handing every badge a place in line you make opening 10 windows and hitting refresh impossible, and if you are going through that gauntlet to take a chance at getting a room it will be because you really WANT a room. Buying 10 badges doesn't help, and people that don't even want a room through housing anyways won't still be handed prime times to reserve a room in place of people who need rooms. 

No more gaming the system. Rooms only go to people who really want one and are willing to put in the effort to get one. 

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Posted by miked gharris
#15

gharris wrote:
miked wrote:
except your proposal of going back to the old system doesn’t do this.  All you need to do is log in at 1 min before housing opens, open 10 browser windows and hit refresh until you get in.  And how do you tell the “people who actually want and are able to actually book rooms” from the groups who all login with the 10 browsers all grabbing rooms and around June get together and decide which has the best room and then releasing all the other rooms they have booked.

Actually, it does exactly that.If you go back to the old system where everyone has to log in when housing goes live vs just handing every badge a place in line you make opening 10 windows and hitting refresh impossible, and if you are going through that gauntlet to take a chance at getting a room it will be because you really WANT a room. Buying 10 badges doesn't help, and people that don't even want a room through housing anyways won't still be handed prime times to reserve a room in place of people who need rooms. 
No more gaming the system. Rooms only go to people who really want one and are willing to put in the effort to get one. 
And using your logic under the new system the people who buy 10 badges deserve to get a room since they “what” one enough to spend $100.  So over the old system that rewards those who will put in 10 min hitting refresh?  I guess this would be lazy slackers not even putting an hour worth of effort in to get a room.

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Posted by gib_rebeg miked
#16

miked wrote:
gharris wrote:
miked wrote:
except your proposal of going back to the old system doesn’t do this.  All you need to do is log in at 1 min before housing opens, open 10 browser windows and hit refresh until you get in.  And how do you tell the “people who actually want and are able to actually book rooms” from the groups who all login with the 10 browsers all grabbing rooms and around June get together and decide which has the best room and then releasing all the other rooms they have booked.

Actually, it does exactly that.If you go back to the old system where everyone has to log in when housing goes live vs just handing every badge a place in line you make opening 10 windows and hitting refresh impossible, and if you are going through that gauntlet to take a chance at getting a room it will be because you really WANT a room. Buying 10 badges doesn't help, and people that don't even want a room through housing anyways won't still be handed prime times to reserve a room in place of people who need rooms. 
No more gaming the system. Rooms only go to people who really want one and are willing to put in the effort to get one. 
And using your logic under the new system the people who buy 10 badges deserve to get a room since they “what” one enough to spend $100.  So over the old system that rewards those who will put in 10 min hitting refresh?  I guess this would be lazy slackers not even putting an hour worth of effort in to get a room.
Think about it.

Pounding the refresh button for free.

Vs paying $10 per attempt with no guarantee to get a decent number.

Which one discourages cheats more?

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Posted by miked
#17

I was trying to be scarcastic over the prior posters use of the word “want” and the attendees who “want” downtown rooms more.  I fully support the new system over the old.  It seems the most fair without hidden tricks to give someone an unfair advantage.

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Posted by gharris miked
#18

miked wrote:
And using your logic under the new system the people who buy 10 badges deserve to get a room since they “what” one enough to spend $100.  So over the old system that rewards those who will put in 10 min hitting refresh?  I guess this would be lazy slackers not even putting an hour worth of effort in to get a room.

Sure...if you believe that people should be rewarded for exploiting the system.

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Posted by gharris gib_rebeg
#19

gib_rebeg wrote:Think about it.Pounding the refresh button for free.
Vs paying $10 per attempt with no guarantee to get a decent number.
Which one discourages cheats more?

Making people pound the refresh key.

Think about it. Only people who want to be in the lottery are in it, weeding out the casuals, people who can't even reserve a room on their own, and people who would otherwise only take a room because it was handed to them...and each person only gets one chance.

By contrast, paying $10 an attempt ENCOURAGES cheating. Remember that about 20% of the people in the housing lottery this year actually got something. Buying 10 badges = nearly guaranteed room, and the $90 you will lose returning 9 badges will be more than made up for by the hundreds of dollars you will save getting a room in the housing block.

The current system absolutely encourages more cheating.

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Posted by gharris miked
#20

miked wrote:
I was trying to be scarcastic over the prior posters use of the word “want” and the attendees who “want” downtown rooms more.  I fully support the new system over the old.  It seems the most fair without hidden tricks to give someone an unfair advantage.

Except the glaring exploit that was pointed out earlier.

Note that "want" doesn't have to be subjective, there actually are people currently being put into the housing lottery who really don't need a room or who aren't even old enough to reserve a room. Should the rest of us still have to compete against these people?

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