New Hotel Being Built ( Locked)
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Posted by lordnlkon nascragman
#21

nascragman wrote:
extra hotel space downtown is welcome.  One hotel isn't going to solve the problem though.  The demand exceeds the supply.  Both for badges and for hotels.  Basic economics tells you what happens next: prices rise.
With the expansion into Lucas Oil, it seemed like the current (apparently capped) number of attendees didn't feel oppressively crowded to me.  In fact, I believe there are still more halls in L.O. that were not used this year.  Food trucks have stepped up in the restaurant department so that seemed like it was covered.
So, the thing that is really needed is to make more remote hotels more usable.  And that's hard.
Shuttles would help.  So would lockers (but terrorism concerns probably contradict this).  I don't have an answer.

There are people who will never be happy. It doesn't matter what changes, they will be upset about it. You can't please everyone. I for one, thought Gencon was awesome this year.

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Posted by it can be fun to run away braewe
#22

braewe wrote:
Back to topic, the picture says the hotel will be where the parking is, but the blurb said there would also be adjacent parking...where? That area doesn't look big enough for hotel plus parking...

I'm wondering whether they mean that it's going to be underground parking, and are phrasing it oddly.

Or they're using a very loose definition of 'adjacent'.

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Posted by gharris miked
#23

miked wrote:
attendance did not increase this year.  In 2015 the unique attendance was 61423 in 2016 it was 60819 this year the only number given was 60000+. Turnstile attendance is up which only shows more people buying multi day badges vs single day badges.  And in case you don’t know the difference between unique and turnstile here it is.  Me and my wife each have a 4 day badge we are 2 unique attendees but 8 turnstile attendees.

You actually hit the nail on the head as to how attendance increased. 

Yes, unique attendance remained flat this year but turnstile attendance increased 2.5% in 2016 and 4% this year. As you pointed out, more people are skipping driving in for the day in favor of staying multiple days in Indy.

And there is the problem. More people staying multiple days means more people needing hotels. That means more demand on housing day, and even more of a mess and more angry people.

Assuming unique attendance stays the same the next two years but turnstile continues to increase at even just a 2.5% rate, increases in demand will outstrip the new rooms that we will get from a new hotel in 2019.

Increased turnstile also means that each individual day of Gen Con is more crowded despite unique attendance being about the same. 

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Posted by gharris braewe
#24

braewe wrote:
How did a thread cheering a new hotel turn into reduce attendance???

Having a new hotel is cool and all but it doesn't fix the underlying problem. It won't even fully treat the increase in symptoms from the underlying problem. People may not like discussing this but it is the truth and trying to ignore it won't fix anything.

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Posted by nscott braewe
#25

braewe wrote:
How did a thread cheering a new hotel turn into reduce attendance???
Back to topic, the picture says the hotel will be where the parking is, but the blurb said there would also be adjacent parking...where? That area doesn't look big enough for hotel plus parking...
About 3/4 of the length of the block looks like it will be the hotel with the northern 1/4 the parking garage.

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Posted by lordnlkon gharris
#26

gharris wrote:
braewe wrote:
How did a thread cheering a new hotel turn into reduce attendance???

Having a new hotel is cool and all but it doesn't fix the underlying problem. It won't even fully treat the increase in symptoms from the underlying problem. People may not like discussing this but it is the truth and trying to ignore it won't fix anything.

Gencon doesn't want to fix anything. They are happy with the way things are. Gencon is as popular as ever and selling out. 60k plus people went this year and from the looks I saw there, almost everyone seemed to be having a great time. You choices are to accept it and just have a good time or to stop coming. No matter what changes you want to make, there are never going to be enough hotel rooms downtown for everyone who wants one. 

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Posted by squirecam lordnlkon
#27

lordnlkon wrote:
gharris wrote:
braewe wrote:
How did a thread cheering a new hotel turn into reduce attendance???

Having a new hotel is cool and all but it doesn't fix the underlying problem. It won't even fully treat the increase in symptoms from the underlying problem. People may not like discussing this but it is the truth and trying to ignore it won't fix anything.
Gencon doesn't want to fix anything. They are happy with the way things are. Gencon is as popular as ever and selling out. 60k plus people went this year and from the looks I saw there, almost everyone seemed to be having a great time. You choices are to accept it and just have a good time or to stop coming. No matter what changes you want to make, there are never going to be enough hotel rooms downtown for everyone who wants one. 
Correct. There will never be enough downtown rooms for those who want them.

The answer though is not to shrug at the problem. There are alternatives. The easiest of which is to start NOW on a shuttle program. Shrugging your shoulders and saying accept it isn’t helpful.
 

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online
Posted by father bloodlust squirecam
#28

squirecam wrote:
lordnlkon wrote:
gharris wrote:
braewe wrote:
How did a thread cheering a new hotel turn into reduce attendance???

Having a new hotel is cool and all but it doesn't fix the underlying problem. It won't even fully treat the increase in symptoms from the underlying problem. People may not like discussing this but it is the truth and trying to ignore it won't fix anything.
Gencon doesn't want to fix anything. They are happy with the way things are. Gencon is as popular as ever and selling out. 60k plus people went this year and from the looks I saw there, almost everyone seemed to be having a great time. You choices are to accept it and just have a good time or to stop coming. No matter what changes you want to make, there are never going to be enough hotel rooms downtown for everyone who wants one. 
Correct. There will never be enough downtown rooms for those who want them.The answer though is not to shrug at the problem. There are alternatives. The easiest of which is to start NOW on a shuttle program. Shrugging your shoulders and saying accept it isn’t helpful.
 

YES! A shuttle system would probably fix most of the housing problems simply by making outlying rooms less of a buzzkill.

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Posted by lordnlkon squirecam
#29

squirecam wrote:
lordnlkon wrote:
gharris wrote:
braewe wrote:
How did a thread cheering a new hotel turn into reduce attendance???

Having a new hotel is cool and all but it doesn't fix the underlying problem. It won't even fully treat the increase in symptoms from the underlying problem. People may not like discussing this but it is the truth and trying to ignore it won't fix anything.
Gencon doesn't want to fix anything. They are happy with the way things are. Gencon is as popular as ever and selling out. 60k plus people went this year and from the looks I saw there, almost everyone seemed to be having a great time. You choices are to accept it and just have a good time or to stop coming. No matter what changes you want to make, there are never going to be enough hotel rooms downtown for everyone who wants one. 
Correct. There will never be enough downtown rooms for those who want them.The answer though is not to shrug at the problem. There are alternatives. The easiest of which is to start NOW on a shuttle program. Shrugging your shoulders and saying accept it isn’t helpful.
 

Gharris is doesn't want a shuttle system. He wants gencon to get rid of some "nongaming" events to lower attendance. Sorry I should have been more clear on exactly what I meant.

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Posted by gharris lordnlkon
#30

lordnlkon wrote:
 
Gharris is doesn't want a shuttle system. He wants gencon to get rid of some "nongaming" events to lower attendance. Sorry I should have been more clear on exactly what I meant.

I didn't realize that you spoke for me.

Actually, if Indy spent the next two years implementing a realistic mass transit system instead of adding one new downtown hotel that would solve a lot of problems. 

But I don't think it will happen.

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Posted by garhkal nascragman
#31

nascragman wrote:
extra hotel space downtown is welcome.  One hotel isn't going to solve the problem though.  The demand exceeds the supply.  Both for badges and for hotels.  Basic economics tells you what happens next: prices rise.
With the expansion into Lucas Oil, it seemed like the current (apparently capped) number of attendees didn't feel oppressively crowded to me.  In fact, I believe there are still more halls in L.O. that were not used this year.  Food trucks have stepped up in the restaurant department so that seemed like it was covered.
So, the thing that is really needed is to make more remote hotels more usable.  And that's hard.
Shuttles would help.  So would lockers (but terrorism concerns probably contradict this).  I don't have an answer.

It would be NICE to see more outlying hotels do shuttles...  Especially if they run all day..  Some of those i have seen in prior years, stopped around 11pm...  Some of us game till 1.20am!

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Posted by squirecam
#32

Yeah shuttles would need to operate later. Ideally they would be 24 hours. 

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Posted by lordnlkon gharris
#33

gharris wrote:
lordnlkon wrote:
 
Gharris is doesn't want a shuttle system. He wants gencon to get rid of some "nongaming" events to lower attendance. Sorry I should have been more clear on exactly what I meant.

I didn't realize that you spoke for me.Actually, if Indy spent the next two years implementing a realistic mass transit system instead of adding one new downtown hotel that would solve a lot of problems. 
But I don't think it will happen.
gharris wrote:We still need to curb and reduce attendance. Otherwise we will continue having an increasingly messed up housing problem. It is bad now. It will be worse next year. It will be even worse the year that this hotel opens unless steps are taken.

That has nothing to do with Gencon. They have zero control over what Indianapolis does about their transit system. Second, did you not say we need to curb attendance? And in other threads did you not say we needed to reduce the events you felt were not gaming? 

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Posted by braewe
#34

Yes. Yes he(she?) has stated that, numerous times, so stating it again here is quite reasonable. Here is just one portion from the WORST thread Ever stating both. So perhaps we can skip the entire argument by referring folks to that now closed monstrosity and get back to debating more useful things.

Like something I'll open a new thread for since I REALLY REALLY WANT IT this year especially!

Posted by gharris in response to stiehle 4 months ago
#364 

 stiehle wrote:
 jm.spellslinger wrote:
 gharris wrote:
People want to be able to drive to Gen Con, stay within walking distance of the con, and not have to walk in 100 degree plus heat. Realistically Indy is the best location for Gen Con, and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. 
The real elephant in the room is attendance. If Gen Con wants to continue to give gamers the experience it wants it needs to curb attendance, and it needs to do so without cutting back on true gaming events. Unfortunately we now have a bloat of people who aren't actually coming for gaming, and Indy can't continue to support a generic "anything that a gamer or a family member of a gamer can possibly be interested in" convention.

there is a whole forum dedicated to this topic. It's surely a more interesting topic now that ticket sales have reached their cap. As someone who comes to gen con as a gamer I am extremely greatful for the relief non-gaming events bring to the con. With over a full work day worth of gaming events scheduled every day from Thursday-Sunday, being able to just enjoy geek culture each day really lightens the experience for me.  

I like the idea of the gaming culture gaining a wider audience and appreciation by non-gamers because of this very situation.  I can't see GenCon cutting off an entire aspect of their fanbase by making the convention geared only toward gaming (whether RPGs or board gaming).  I've seen other cons that seem to gear themselves toward gaming specifically, so those options are always out there.  GenCon, to me anyway, seems more like a celebration, bringing 'geek culture' together, whether they be gamers, anime and comic book enthusiasts or cosplay participants - as well as those that want to just soak it all in.

Sure, we can try to have Gen Con be a generic "geek culture" show. We can also have these same discussions again in 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 in new "housing worst ever" threads because a bunch of angry gamers still can't get hotel rooms. Gen Con cannot be a generic "geek culture" show, that is way too broad and no city can handle that. Luckily, Gen Con is, in fact, "The Best Four Days in Gaming". It is a GAMING convention, gaming comes first always and accommodating gamers should always be the first priority.Cosplay isn't gaming. Anime isn't gaming. Arts and crafts, belly dancing, and kinky rope play events are not gaming (well, maybe rope play if you are lucky...). Puppets are not gaming. Comic books are not gaming. We may not need to cut all of them all at once but cuts do need to start being made somewhere.Ten years ago, sure, we had a little bit of room where we could accommodate some fluff. Now? Indy cannot handle it and we have nowhere to move to. Right now this is a housing issue. When the convention hits it will be a parking, restaurant, and getting through the exhibit hall issue. Severe housing problems are just a symptom of a bigger problem.

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Posted by mikeboozer
#35

Way off topic now. 

Mike Boozer 
Customer Service & Event Team Manager
Gen Con LLC

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