Change to Housing Policy
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Posted by miked braewe

braewe wrote:
I also don't think any person attending completely solo would take an embassy suites room. Even a king. Embassy is close but not immediate and while the breakfast is nice the cost of embassy is also greater.
It's far more likely a single person would select westin or Hyatt.
Or at worst take an embassy king.
It isn't like getting number one automatically assigns you a double double. You pick the room.
So I still don't understand the logic. A person attending solo simply won't TAKE a double. 
Unless your logic is 'I'm attending solo and should therefore get my room over these four people since there is only one bed in the room' and that is no more logical than the oodles of people saying they should get a downtown room because they have small children or run games or are handicapped or have translation issues or have to carry a lot or...any other number of reasons. 
 
give it up  Braewe those who never attended in Milwaukee will still demand their downtown rooms and not listen to those of us who attended then with the same issues stayed at the dorms or airport.  But once again I will ask for the 5th year in a row.  HAS ANYONE CONTACTED THE UNIVERSITY TO SEE IF THEY RNT DORMROOMS LIKE THE UWM DID?

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Posted by squirecam braewe

braewe wrote:
I also don't think any person attending completely solo would take an embassy suites room. Even a king. Embassy is close but not immediate and while the breakfast is nice the cost of embassy is also greater.
It's far more likely a single person would select westin or Hyatt.
Or at worst take an embassy king.
It isn't like getting number one automatically assigns you a double double. You pick the room.
So I still don't understand the logic. A person attending solo simply won't TAKE a double. 
Unless your logic is 'I'm attending solo and should therefore get my room over these four people since there is only one bed in the room' and that is no more logical than the oodles of people saying they should get a downtown room because they have small children or run games or are handicapped or have translation issues or have to carry a lot or...any other number of reasons. 
 
I never presume that people will be staying with me. Sure, many years they have but sometimes not. I always try to get a king, at a Hilton branded hotel. The Embassy is cheaper for the Conrad for example, and the convenience/breakfast cost also could be considered. Point being, I would not take the Westin or Hyatt. I stay at Hilton brands. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

But I dont think singles always think as I do. They would get a double/double just for themselves downtown if that was only available. (Or in years where everyone rushed the server you picked what you could and hoped for the best.)

So would groups be mad if they found out singles took a significant number of double/double rooms. You bet they would.

And they would say the same arguments that you are making. They can and will take a double if its downtown and they can get it. And people that prefer a certain hotel brand wont care if its a king or double. They will snag it despite the group/lack of.

 

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Posted by miked squirecam

squirecam wrote:
braewe wrote:
I also don't think any person attending completely solo would take an embassy suites room. Even a king. Embassy is close but not immediate and while the breakfast is nice the cost of embassy is also greater.
It's far more likely a single person would select westin or Hyatt.
Or at worst take an embassy king.
It isn't like getting number one automatically assigns you a double double. You pick the room.
So I still don't understand the logic. A person attending solo simply won't TAKE a double. 
Unless your logic is 'I'm attending solo and should therefore get my room over these four people since there is only one bed in the room' and that is no more logical than the oodles of people saying they should get a downtown room because they have small children or run games or are handicapped or have translation issues or have to carry a lot or...any other number of reasons. 
I never presume that people will be staying with me. Sure, many years they have but sometimes not. I always try to get a king, at a Hilton branded hotel. The Embassy is cheaper for the Conrad for example, and the convenience/breakfast cost also could be considered. Point being, I would not take the Westin or Hyatt. I stay at Hilton brands. And I'm sure I'm not alone.But I dont think singles always think as I do. They would get a double/double just for themselves downtown if that was only available. (Or in years where everyone rushed the server you picked what you could and hoped for the best.)
So would groups be mad if they found out singles took a significant number of double/double rooms. You bet they would.
And they would say the same arguments that you are making. They can and will take a double if its downtown and they can get it. And people that prefer a certain hotel brand wont care if its a king or double. They will snag it despite the group/lack of.
 
I once had a hole dorm suites for two because everyone else canceled now a days I get a room for me and my wife.  If anyone else wants to come they get and pay for their own rooms.  Those days of me trusting people to pay me back are long gone

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Posted by ryric

I think the location matters far more to most people than the number and size of beds, is the takeaway here.

I've seen people sleep in a closet because that closet was in a connected hotel.

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Posted by raidkillsbugsded ploveking

ploveking wrote:
A higher density of people downtown is desirable. Trying to ensure that each room meets some ideal conceptual usage seems pointless. But if we are trying to ensure that people get the rooms "intended" for them, based on last name, there should be a king suite set aside for me.

Your last point is one of the most logical things I've seen on any housing thread over the years...

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Posted by wjpennington

All this talk about who should have a room just comes down to "I want less people competing with me". Which isn't going to happen. Groups will take a King room if thats what they get. A single will take a double if thats what they get If there is a choice, groups will of course take double rooms.

GenCon really has no way to control how many go into a room,  nor cares if its the 'fair number'". Hotels take care of their maximum occupancy rules.  Who 'should', or 'needs' it more have a room is a pointless issue..because rooms will never be given out on 'need'...outside of the GM/Volunteer/Vendor block, because you 'need' those people to have a convention.

As for fairness for lone attendees versus groups and draws  in the lottery....meh. If you go by yourself, you will have a lesser chance of getting a downtown room versus a group of people who by badges separately. That isn't unfair. That is math. The solution isn't some impossible scheme to ration rooms based on actual real occupancy rates no one actually knows to make things fair for the single attendee: the only thing that will help is finding some roommates, or reserving out of block.

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Posted by selene314 squirecam

squirecam wrote:
 
If you could not place 8 in one room downtown, would you split one group downtown and one outside? Likely not. Nor would those whom cost matters more.

I simply want the rules to be followed and fair for everyone. The king room is NOT meant for your group. Your group should be in a room meant for it. If thats downtown, great. If its not, then that's fine too. What your group should not be allowed to do is take a room not designed for it. Maximum occupancy is there for a reason.


Groups that have cars often do split. (If Gen Con would run a usable shuttle, maybe everyone else would split too.)

When one of the 8 people in a group gets a lottery number good enough for a downtown king room (but not a double), then the room IS meant for that one person and it IS fair for him to claim it. He is then allowed to share it with a couple of friends. But the rest of the group should obey the maximum occupancy rules and find rooms elsewhere.

Most of the reasons I've seen for needing a downtown room (heavy books, needing a nap, unwieldy cosplay, etc.) could be satisfied by having one friend with a downtown room. You don't all need to sleep there.

wjpennington wrote:As for fairness for lone attendees versus groups and draws  in the lottery....meh. If you go by yourself, you will have a lesser chance of getting a downtown room versus a group of people who by badges separately. That isn't unfair. That is math. The solution isn't some impossible scheme to ration rooms based on actual real occupancy rates no one actually knows to make things fair for the single attendee

​​If a solo traveler takes a downtown in-block room, they are taking up space that could be used more efficiently by putting 4 people in the same room. But that solo has a considerably smaller chance than the group of 4 of scoring a downtown room.

Their lottery chances are not "fair" in the mathematical sense, but the tradeoff does seem "fair" in the more subjective sense of justness.

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Posted by bobvilla braewe

braewe wrote:
I also don't think any person attending completely solo would take an embassy suites room. Even a king. Embassy is close but not immediate and while the breakfast is nice the cost of embassy is also greater.
It's far more likely a single person would select westin or Hyatt.
Or at worst take an embassy king.
It isn't like getting number one automatically assigns you a double double. You pick the room.
So I still don't understand the logic. A person attending solo simply won't TAKE a double. 
Unless your logic is 'I'm attending solo and should therefore get my room over these four people since there is only one bed in the room' and that is no more logical than the oodles of people saying they should get a downtown room because they have small children or run games or are handicapped or have translation issues or have to carry a lot or...any other number of reasons. 

For years 4 of us would go I would usually get the room and stay at the Embassy. Then one year,well after housing, everyone I usually went with bowed out for one reason or another one at literally the very last minute. I stayed solo at an Embassy suites and felt horrible about the waste rattling around that huge suite alone. I've been solo for 5 years now and never stayed there again even though I did have the opportunity once. Of the last 5 years I've only 'won' the housing lottery once but every year but one managed to get a downtown room by being patient and checking the housing page pretty much every day and twice it was the Westin. So this is kind of my long winded way of agreeing with you.

Up until 3 years ago getting a downtown room in the first few hours was fairly easy if you started looking at a king instead of doubles now even those go super fast. Meh I take what I get but I won't take the suites anymore even if offered unless I get roommates. To be fair two years ago I was upgraded to a suite at the Sheradon when I arrived because they didn't have a room for me despite my reservation.I arrived around 8 pm Wednesday and it was chaos.The assistant manager was frantic, and a little gun shy I think, I believe he expected me to shout his head off. I didn't raise a fuss, but was firm about my having a reservation, I just said I would look around the convention center,pick up my badge and such while they tried to find me a place and 2 hours later I get upgraded to a fairly big suite on some members floor or something.

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Posted by andrewj.rager bobvilla

bobvilla wrote:
braewe wrote:
I also don't think any person attending completely solo would take an embassy suites room. Even a king. Embassy is close but not immediate and while the breakfast is nice the cost of embassy is also greater.
It's far more likely a single person would select westin or Hyatt.
Or at worst take an embassy king.
It isn't like getting number one automatically assigns you a double double. You pick the room.
So I still don't understand the logic. A person attending solo simply won't TAKE a double. 
Unless your logic is 'I'm attending solo and should therefore get my room over these four people since there is only one bed in the room' and that is no more logical than the oodles of people saying they should get a downtown room because they have small children or run games or are handicapped or have translation issues or have to carry a lot or...any other number of reasons. 

For years 4 of us would go I would usually get the room and stay at the Embassy. Then one year,well after housing, everyone I usually went with bowed out for one reason or another one at literally the very last minute. I stayed solo at an Embassy suites and felt horrible about the waste rattling around that huge suite alone. I've been solo for 5 years now and never stayed there again even though I did have the opportunity once. Of the last 5 years I've only 'won' the housing lottery once but every year but one managed to get a downtown room by being patient and checking the housing page pretty much every day and twice it was the Westin. So this is kind of my long winded way of agreeing with you.Up until 3 years ago getting a downtown room in the first few hours was fairly easy if you started looking at a king instead of doubles now even those go super fast. Meh I take what I get but I won't take the suites anymore even if offered unless I get roommates. To be fair two years ago I was upgraded to a suite at the Sheradon when I arrived because they didn't have a room for me despite my reservation.I arrived around 8 pm Wednesday and it was chaos.The assistant manager was frantic, and a little gun shy I think, I believe he expected me to shout his head off. I didn't raise a fuss, but was firm about my having a reservation, I just said I would look around the convention center,pick up my badge and such while they tried to find me a place and 2 hours later I get upgraded to a fairly big suite on some members floor or something.
As someone who has worked in customer service, always be nice and people are more likely to help you. This is a great example of that. CS people are so used to getting yelled at, that when you are calmer and nice about it, it normally works out in your favor.

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Posted by flamepulse father bloodlust

father bloodlust wrote:
wjpennington wrote:
No one really benefits. Gencon makes more money, by making things worse for players. Nice timing with the badge hike.

Yep. Just what we attendees need to feel appreciated - massive badge price hikes and BS changes to room policy all at once. Nice PR work, GenCon!

Massive price hikes?  $1- isn't massive, considering they have expanded their space and are adding tings to the con all the time I thinks its fair to expect the tickets to go up.  hell my rent goes up more then $10 year to year.

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Posted by jde9942 ryric

ryric wrote:
miked wrote:
ryric wrote:
matthias9 wrote:
khadorstrong wrote:
matthias9 wrote:
Attendance literally doubled in the 5-year span from 2010 to 2015.  I've gotten a downtown hotel for 31 years (going back to Milwaukee).  But, saying you got a downtown hotel 5+ years ago really means nothing compared to what it is like now from a demand standpoint.  At that time, it was more about "Can I get one directly across the skyway from the Convention Center?  Or will I be stuck walking 2 blocks?"
We aren't talking about 5 years ago, we are talking about 2014/15

My point was addressing a previous poster's comment that: "I managed to get a downtown room 13 years in a row using the old system, it must not take much luck."  Under the old system, only the last year or two would it have been challenging to a get a room downtown.
I was only addressing the claim that some make that ever getting a downtown room was luck. Pre-lottery, it really wasn't - many attendees consistently got downtown rooms every year. Whether that would be true now is not something I feel I have the data to have any sort of informed opinion on. Heck, I've managed to get a downtown room every year with the lottery - and that is luck.
they got rooms by have 10 browsers windows open hitting refresh constantly.  So now it’s not fair because people who cheated and played the system don’t automatically get downtown rooms
Also untrue. I never had multiple windows open, just one browser window with my info open in Notepad ready to copy/paste. The other major tactic was to pick about the third most popular downtown hotel, so while everyone else is jockeying for their favorite spot I would get in and done before the crowd started looking at their "secondary" options.There really was a skill element to it.
I'm in complete agreement with ryric here.  If you had skillz you could easily get a downtown connected room in the old system.  Just like he said, had Notepad filled in with all relevant info, had address fields saved in browser, good at 10-key, up-to-date browser with solid internet connection.  In the year or two before this housing lottery started, I'd be done with housing registration in about 3 minutes.  Then you go to the old forums and post in the "Who succeeded in housing" thread- heck, there were a few years I started that thread. 

It all comes down to not fiddle-fracking around, being organized and quick with the browser clicks. 

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Posted by roundtop

2010 took me 20 frantic minutes even with that due to the site constantly crashing.  Click select copy paste submit... timeout timeout .start again. Plus it didn't lock in the room until submitted, so you could have a room selected and showing as available, then click submit after putting in Cc details and have to start all over again as the last one goes.

I prefer the new system to that

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Posted by marimaccadmin

The statement "if you had skillz you could easily get a downtown connected room in the old system" is just not true.

What IS true is that, 5 years ago, hotel rooms did not sell out so quickly.  I very well remember around 2005 or 2006, watching the downtown rooms sell out over several days.  Then, it was 24 hours, then it was 8 hours, and now, it's just a few hours.

There were stories back then of people not filling out their form quick enough and getting shut out, but that was essentially for things like, not getting that coveted Embassy Suites double.

What is true is that, for years now, demand for downtown hotels has outstripped supply by orders of magnitude.  It has been essentially a lottery for years.  That's all it can be when you have thousands of people clicking the same button at the exact same millisecond.  Making it a formalized lottery just takes out any issues of lag, and reduces server load. So for years now, it hasn't been mad skills, it's been luck that got you a room or not.

Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC

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Posted by flamepulse

Ive been able to get a downtown hotel every year ive gone 6 times total now spread out over the last 10 years.
 

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Posted by mhayward1978 marimaccadmin

marimaccadmin wrote:
The statement "if you had skillz you could easily get a downtown connected room in the old system" is just not true.
What IS true is that, 5 years ago, hotel rooms did not sell out so quickly.  I very well remember around 2005 or 2006, watching the downtown rooms sell out over several days.  Then, it was 24 hours, then it was 8 hours, and now, it's just a few hours.
There were stories back then of people not filling out their form quick enough and getting shut out, but that was essentially for things like, not getting that coveted Embassy Suites double.
What is true is that, for years now, demand for downtown hotels has outstripped supply by orders of magnitude.  It has been essentially a lottery for years.  That's all it can be when you have thousands of people clicking the same button at the exact same millisecond.  Making it a formalized lottery just takes out any issues of lag, and reduces server load. So for years now, it hasn't been mad skills, it's been luck that got you a room or not.
Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC

Preach!  Thanks for shedding some official light on the topic!

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Posted by cbudoris mhayward1978

mhayward1978 wrote:
marimaccadmin wrote:
The statement "if you had skillz you could easily get a downtown connected room in the old system" is just not true.
What IS true is that, 5 years ago, hotel rooms did not sell out so quickly.  I very well remember around 2005 or 2006, watching the downtown rooms sell out over several days.  Then, it was 24 hours, then it was 8 hours, and now, it's just a few hours.
There were stories back then of people not filling out their form quick enough and getting shut out, but that was essentially for things like, not getting that coveted Embassy Suites double.
What is true is that, for years now, demand for downtown hotels has outstripped supply by orders of magnitude.  It has been essentially a lottery for years.  That's all it can be when you have thousands of people clicking the same button at the exact same millisecond.  Making it a formalized lottery just takes out any issues of lag, and reduces server load. So for years now, it hasn't been mad skills, it's been luck that got you a room or not.
Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC

Preach!  Thanks for shedding some official light on the topic!
I'm not referring to every hotel room in downtown, just the core connected ones that ppl generally target.  Hyatt, Westin, Marriott, Embassy (not connected but the breakfast makes it sell out early).  Hyatt doubles were generally gone within the first 1/2 hour. 

Believe what you want I guess, but others have corroborated my experience in similar tales of their own.  If you were fast, prepared and knew what you want, you could breeze through housing.  

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Posted by bushmaster

Technically Embassy is connect.  It is at the end/beginning of the skywalk system.

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Posted by breye

New housing policy created some wrinkles for those promised a badge by one of the vendors as a reward - if the vendor purchases the badge for someone else, the vendor is the one who gets the housing lottery ticket.

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Posted by breye marimaccadmin

marimaccadmin wrote:
The statement "if you had skillz you could easily get a downtown connected room in the old system" is just not true.

Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC


It may be hyperbole, but, it isn't "just not true".

My anecdotal experience with the Indy Visitors and Convention Bureau was excellent, year after year.  Even if I didn't get the exact room I needed by preparing and taking the day off of work the day housing opened, they were always available to answer questions and help with an actual wait list for the hotels.

But as you point out, thing are different now.  There is greater demand. A more organized way to handle it is required.

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Posted by squirecam breye

breye wrote:
marimaccadmin wrote:
The statement "if you had skillz you could easily get a downtown connected room in the old system" is just not true.Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC

It may be hyperbole, but, it isn't "just not true".My anecdotal experience with the Indy Visitors and Convention Bureau was excellent, year after year.  Even if I didn't get the exact room I needed by preparing and taking the day off of work the day housing opened, they were always available to answer questions and help with an actual wait list for the hotels.
But as you point out, thing are different now.  There is greater demand. A more organized way to handle it is required.
yes the wait list helped people get downtown rooms after they sold out. But the wait list did not help anyone get a room when crashing the servers.

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