Housing shock!
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Posted by fukata

1 person buys 1x $110 badge and gets 1 chance at the housing lottery.
1 person who's part of a group of 4 buys 1x $110 badge and gets 4 chances at the housing lottery, because (s)he effectively also gets to use every other group member's lottery slot.

Your group is made up of individuals who are paying the same as a single person, but they get multiple chances at the lottery, meaning that groups of 2+ have a vastly increased chance of getting a downtown room.

Yes, this is unfair, it means that an individual is paying the same $110 for an experience which is likely to be impaired.

You're right that it's difficult to prevent this, but I don't think anyone will be feeling bad if your choice to buy 4x individual badges to get free chances at the lottery causes you problems with the new policy, which is clearly designed to let people know this isn't an intended way to get extra lottery slots. (Otherwise, you'd get the same effect when booking together).

Gencon doesn't want you doing this because it means groups have a significant advantage over individuals, and it discourages individuals from attending if you're highly likely to have a worse experience as an individual.

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Posted by irontk fukata

fukata wrote:
1 person buys 1x $110 badge and gets 1 chance at the housing lottery.
1 person who's part of a group of 4 buys 1x $110 badge and gets 4 chances at the housing lottery, because (s)he effectively also gets to use every other group member's lottery slot.
Your group is made up of individuals who are paying the same as a single person, but they get multiple chances at the lottery, meaning that groups of 2+ have a vastly increased chance of getting a downtown room.
Yes, this is unfair, it means that an individual is paying the same $110 for an experience which is likely to be impaired.
You're right that it's difficult to prevent this, but I don't think anyone will be feeling bad if your choice to buy 4x individual badges to get free chances at the lottery causes you problems with the new policy, which is clearly designed to let people know this isn't an intended way to get extra lottery slots. (Otherwise, you'd get the same effect when booking together).
Gencon doesn't want you doing this because it means groups have a significant advantage over individuals, and it discourages individuals from attending if you're highly likely to have a worse experience as an individual.

That's not true at all. 
1 person who buys 1 badge at 110 gets 1 chance 
1 person who's part of a group who all buy badges gets 1 chance. 
Their friends also get 1 chance a piece. 
If they later choose to join together, that's up to the individual. 

More importantly those 4 people are ONLY taking up 1 room. Meaning the 3 other single people aren't getting rooms
downtown meaning you have a better chance at getting a room you want. 
They did cut out, the most unfair part of the old process- The fact that group USED TO all get rooms downtown if they had good enough times and then just give them away later. 

Where do you get the idea that Gen Con doesn't want you grouping up? 
Have they EVER indicated that? 
IN FACT they have a portion of their forum dedicated to sharing rooms with people, so I'd say the opposite is true. 

https://www.gencon.com/forums/37-looking-for-a-room-to-share-or-need-a-roommate

 

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Posted by squirecam bithlord

bithlord wrote:
>  There was zero problem evacuating 5 people from a room meant for 4. We didn't even get hysterical on the internet. And this was at a one hotel convention.
Nevertheless, hotel capacities *are* a safety issue, and that safety issue is due to fire codes among other regulations.  
It's not a problem when one room overloads by one person.  It *is* a problem when half the rooms overload by one person, or when one room overloads by 10 persons (and, yes, I've stayed in rooms that overloaded by that much -- other than getting a free room out of it, as the person who actually booked the room, it wasn't worth it at all).
It also depends on whether the hotel charges extra per person -- some hotels charge one rate for the first two, than X extra for each additional person.  If it is a hotel that does that, then yes it would be stealing because you are quite literally taking services that have a cost without paying for them.
Yep

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Posted by squirecam irontk

irontk wrote:
I'm also not sure why you feel 4 in a king site is not fair or right.
it's literally what the portal gave me when I put in that I had four people staying.
1-4 in a king is allowed, as that is the maximum occupancy of the room.

What I dont think should be condoned is 7+ people in that room, and they all have 7X the chance of getting it in the lotto.
 

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Posted by irontk squirecam

squirecam wrote:
irontk wrote:
I'm also not sure why you feel 4 in a king site is not fair or right.
it's literally what the portal gave me when I put in that I had four people staying.
1-4 in a king is allowed, as that is the maximum occupancy of the room.What I dont think should be condoned is 7+ people in that room, and they all have 7X the chance of getting it in the lotto.
 
that is a bit extreme. We've had 7 before, extended to 10 and got two rooms. Last year we did 10 as well. Hilton presidential outside of the block

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Posted by irontk

That to me is your best course. Get 10 people willing to go 5/5 and you're almost guaranteed two downtown rooms,
which is a great thing to me, you should be. More people should do this, the more people downtown the better, especially in Gen con's view.

some one off rooms are fine, for single people but, obviously they don't want rooms of 1 and 2 to be the regular or attendance may be a problem lol

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Posted by squirecam irontk

irontk wrote:
squirecam wrote:
irontk wrote:
I'm also not sure why you feel 4 in a king site is not fair or right.
it's literally what the portal gave me when I put in that I had four people staying.
1-4 in a king is allowed, as that is the maximum occupancy of the room.What I dont think should be condoned is 7+ people in that room, and they all have 7X the chance of getting it in the lotto.
that is a bit extreme. We've had 7 before, extended to 10 and got two rooms. Last year we did 10 as well. Hilton presidential outside of the block
So you just ignore that 7 people are not allowed in the king room.

Got it.

If you are breaking the rules, why should the lotto help you do so. It shouldn't.

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Posted by mbeauparland fukata

fukata wrote:
1 person buys 1x $110 badge and gets 1 chance at the housing lottery.
1 person who's part of a group of 4 buys 1x $110 badge and gets 4 chances at the housing lottery, because (s)he effectively also gets to use every other group member's lottery slot.
Your group is made up of individuals who are paying the same as a single person, but they get multiple chances at the lottery, meaning that groups of 2+ have a vastly increased chance of getting a downtown room.
Yes, this is unfair, it means that an individual is paying the same $110 for an experience which is likely to be impaired.
You're right that it's difficult to prevent this, but I don't think anyone will be feeling bad if your choice to buy 4x individual badges to get free chances at the lottery causes you problems with the new policy, which is clearly designed to let people know this isn't an intended way to get extra lottery slots. (Otherwise, you'd get the same effect when booking together).
Gencon doesn't want you doing this because it means groups have a significant advantage over individuals, and it discourages individuals from attending if you're highly likely to have a worse experience as an individual.
So just to be clear...

You buy one badge to receive one time slot and I buy one badge to receive one time slot is fair.

However if you buy a badge, I buy a badge, and a friend of mine buys a badge, each of us getting our own time slot, with my friend getting the best one, it would be unfair for him to get a room and then share it with me? Say you bought a badge, got the best time, and shared a room with someone; would that be "fair?" Should only people with the same time slot be able to share rooms? Should people with time slots after downtown rooms sell out be forbidden from staying with friends downtown? Should no one be able to share rooms?

One time slot per badge is fair. People pooling their resources isn't unfair, as anyone with friends can do so. And frankly, I would think Gen Con would be happier getting 4 people per room than just 1, given the scarcity of downtown housing.

Now if the argument is against a single person buying 10 badges, keeping the best time and returning the other nine, (which I don't think works that way anyway) then I agree that would be wrong....

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Posted by irontk squirecam

squirecam wrote:
irontk wrote:
squirecam wrote:
irontk wrote:
I'm also not sure why you feel 4 in a king site is not fair or right.
it's literally what the portal gave me when I put in that I had four people staying.
1-4 in a king is allowed, as that is the maximum occupancy of the room.What I dont think should be condoned is 7+ people in that room, and they all have 7X the chance of getting it in the lotto.
that is a bit extreme. We've had 7 before, extended to 10 and got two rooms. Last year we did 10 as well. Hilton presidential outside of the block
So you just ignore that 7 people are not allowed in the king room.Got it.
If you are breaking the rules, why should the lotto help you do so. It shouldn't.
I think you just like posting on Gen Con forums to argue. 

You are clearly just making things up at this point. 
I SAID When we had 7 people in our group, we EXTENDED to 10 people and got two rooms. 

Please stop with the holier than tho argument. 
It's not working

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Posted by squirecam irontk

irontk wrote:
squirecam wrote:
irontk wrote:
squirecam wrote:
irontk wrote:
I'm also not sure why you feel 4 in a king site is not fair or right.
it's literally what the portal gave me when I put in that I had four people staying.
1-4 in a king is allowed, as that is the maximum occupancy of the room.What I dont think should be condoned is 7+ people in that room, and they all have 7X the chance of getting it in the lotto.
that is a bit extreme. We've had 7 before, extended to 10 and got two rooms. Last year we did 10 as well. Hilton presidential outside of the block
So you just ignore that 7 people are not allowed in the king room.Got it.
If you are breaking the rules, why should the lotto help you do so. It shouldn't.
I think you just like posting on Gen Con forums to argue. You are clearly just making things up at this point. 
I SAID When we had 7 people in our group, we EXTENDED to 10 people and got two rooms. 
Please stop with the holier than tho argument. 
It's not working
I'm not making up anything. 7 people should not be allowed to get a King bed room designed for a maximum occupancy of 4. It is against the rules and a fire hazard. Either you agree with that or you dont.

I dont care about presidential suites designed for large group sizes.

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Posted by squirecam mbeauparland

mbeauparland wrote:
fukata wrote:
1 person buys 1x $110 badge and gets 1 chance at the housing lottery.
1 person who's part of a group of 4 buys 1x $110 badge and gets 4 chances at the housing lottery, because (s)he effectively also gets to use every other group member's lottery slot.
Your group is made up of individuals who are paying the same as a single person, but they get multiple chances at the lottery, meaning that groups of 2+ have a vastly increased chance of getting a downtown room.
Yes, this is unfair, it means that an individual is paying the same $110 for an experience which is likely to be impaired.
You're right that it's difficult to prevent this, but I don't think anyone will be feeling bad if your choice to buy 4x individual badges to get free chances at the lottery causes you problems with the new policy, which is clearly designed to let people know this isn't an intended way to get extra lottery slots. (Otherwise, you'd get the same effect when booking together).
Gencon doesn't want you doing this because it means groups have a significant advantage over individuals, and it discourages individuals from attending if you're highly likely to have a worse experience as an individual.
So just to be clear...You buy one badge to receive one time slot and I buy one badge to receive one time slot is fair.
However if you buy a badge, I buy a badge, and a friend of mine buys a badge, each of us getting our own time slot, with my friend getting the best one, it would be unfair for him to get a room and then share it with me? Say you bought a badge, got the best time, and shared a room with someone; would that be "fair?" Should only people with the same time slot be able to share rooms? Should people with time slots after downtown rooms sell out be forbidden from staying with friends downtown? Should no one be able to share rooms?
One time slot per badge is fair. People pooling their resources isn't unfair, as anyone with friends can do so. And frankly, I would think Gen Con would be happier getting 4 people per room than just 1, given the scarcity of downtown housing.
Now if the argument is against a single person buying 10 badges, keeping the best time and returning the other nine, (which I don't think works that way anyway) then I agree that would be wrong....
You sharing a King bed room with your friend is ok. You sharing that room with 7 friends and exceeding maximum occupancy is not.

Its unfair because you have 7x the chances to get a room your group is not designed for. I dont get why this is so hard to understand. You should not be allowed to exceed maximum occupancy. Its against the rules and a fire hazard.

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Posted by irontk

Yeah we get it, it's against Fire Hazard. 
Yeah we get it, we have groups and from that get an advantage and you decide to go solo.
We get it.

This was the most successful year of the lottery. 
This was a compliment to Gen Con for doing a great job. 

They did. 
If you don't think so, that's fine, but overall more people are happy. More people got the rooms they wanted, whether in groups or not. 

Your feelings on 7 people being in a king are fun to hear about 
4-5 times; they are boring around the 10th time. 

They aren't changing to a system of 1 person 1 time, 1 group 1 time. 

They encourage groups. 
That would discourage them. 

 

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Posted by irontk

7 people getting  times and sharing a room isn't wrong. 

1 person getting 7 badges to get 7 times then returning 6 of them, is the ONLY thing wrong. 

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Posted by mbeauparland squirecam

squirecam wrote:
mbeauparland wrote:
fukata wrote:
1 person buys 1x $110 badge and gets 1 chance at the housing lottery.
1 person who's part of a group of 4 buys 1x $110 badge and gets 4 chances at the housing lottery, because (s)he effectively also gets to use every other group member's lottery slot.
Your group is made up of individuals who are paying the same as a single person, but they get multiple chances at the lottery, meaning that groups of 2+ have a vastly increased chance of getting a downtown room.
Yes, this is unfair, it means that an individual is paying the same $110 for an experience which is likely to be impaired.
You're right that it's difficult to prevent this, but I don't think anyone will be feeling bad if your choice to buy 4x individual badges to get free chances at the lottery causes you problems with the new policy, which is clearly designed to let people know this isn't an intended way to get extra lottery slots. (Otherwise, you'd get the same effect when booking together).
Gencon doesn't want you doing this because it means groups have a significant advantage over individuals, and it discourages individuals from attending if you're highly likely to have a worse experience as an individual.
So just to be clear...You buy one badge to receive one time slot and I buy one badge to receive one time slot is fair.
However if you buy a badge, I buy a badge, and a friend of mine buys a badge, each of us getting our own time slot, with my friend getting the best one, it would be unfair for him to get a room and then share it with me? Say you bought a badge, got the best time, and shared a room with someone; would that be "fair?" Should only people with the same time slot be able to share rooms? Should people with time slots after downtown rooms sell out be forbidden from staying with friends downtown? Should no one be able to share rooms?
One time slot per badge is fair. People pooling their resources isn't unfair, as anyone with friends can do so. And frankly, I would think Gen Con would be happier getting 4 people per room than just 1, given the scarcity of downtown housing.
Now if the argument is against a single person buying 10 badges, keeping the best time and returning the other nine, (which I don't think works that way anyway) then I agree that would be wrong....
You sharing a King bed room with your friend is ok. You sharing that room with 7 friends and exceeding maximum occupancy is not.Its unfair because you have 7x the chances to get a room your group is not designed for. I dont get why this is so hard to understand. You should not be allowed to exceed maximum occupancy. Its against the rules and a fire hazard.
I agree with the 7 people in a King part of the argument, but to me that's a separate issue.

The pooling of resources doesn't seem unethical to me as it still results in one room being consumed from the available pool.

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Posted by irontk mbeauparland

mbeauparland wrote:
squirecam wrote:
mbeauparland wrote:
fukata wrote:
1 person buys 1x $110 badge and gets 1 chance at the housing lottery.
1 person who's part of a group of 4 buys 1x $110 badge and gets 4 chances at the housing lottery, because (s)he effectively also gets to use every other group member's lottery slot.
Your group is made up of individuals who are paying the same as a single person, but they get multiple chances at the lottery, meaning that groups of 2+ have a vastly increased chance of getting a downtown room.
Yes, this is unfair, it means that an individual is paying the same $110 for an experience which is likely to be impaired.
You're right that it's difficult to prevent this, but I don't think anyone will be feeling bad if your choice to buy 4x individual badges to get free chances at the lottery causes you problems with the new policy, which is clearly designed to let people know this isn't an intended way to get extra lottery slots. (Otherwise, you'd get the same effect when booking together).
Gencon doesn't want you doing this because it means groups have a significant advantage over individuals, and it discourages individuals from attending if you're highly likely to have a worse experience as an individual.
So just to be clear...You buy one badge to receive one time slot and I buy one badge to receive one time slot is fair.
However if you buy a badge, I buy a badge, and a friend of mine buys a badge, each of us getting our own time slot, with my friend getting the best one, it would be unfair for him to get a room and then share it with me? Say you bought a badge, got the best time, and shared a room with someone; would that be "fair?" Should only people with the same time slot be able to share rooms? Should people with time slots after downtown rooms sell out be forbidden from staying with friends downtown? Should no one be able to share rooms?
One time slot per badge is fair. People pooling their resources isn't unfair, as anyone with friends can do so. And frankly, I would think Gen Con would be happier getting 4 people per room than just 1, given the scarcity of downtown housing.
Now if the argument is against a single person buying 10 badges, keeping the best time and returning the other nine, (which I don't think works that way anyway) then I agree that would be wrong....
You sharing a King bed room with your friend is ok. You sharing that room with 7 friends and exceeding maximum occupancy is not.Its unfair because you have 7x the chances to get a room your group is not designed for. I dont get why this is so hard to understand. You should not be allowed to exceed maximum occupancy. Its against the rules and a fire hazard.
I agree with the 7 people in a King part of the argument, but to me that's a separate issue.The pooling of resources doesn't seem unethical to me as it still results in one room being consumed from the available pool.

Right, it's the hotel's issue, not Gen Cons. What they want to allow in their rooms is completely up to them. 
The Gen Con system is very clear, each person gets a hotel time per 1, and 3 ADULTS on their Gen Con unique account. 
If you want to get into fairness, you could easily argue it's unfair that a husband and wife together only get 1 time, while a husband and wife on separate accounts gets 2. 

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Posted by divachelle irontk

irontk wrote:The Gen Con system is very clear, each person gets a hotel time per 1, and 3 ADULTS on their Gen Con unique account. 
Slight correction...I believe it is every three badges, not every three adults.

From the housing info page:
ROOM LIMITS
Badge purchasers are allowed to request one hotel room for every 1-2 badges purchased.


  • 1-2 badges = 1 room
  • 3-4 badges = 2 rooms
  • 5-6 badges = 3 rooms
  • 7+ badges = etc ...

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Posted by rayken

You have to devise a system where groups coming together and need ONE room do not have a higher chance of getting a downtown room. 

I have seen MANY years where 5, 6, 7, or 8 people get into a single room. For relatives and close friends, I have seen as many as 3 thinner people in two queens (6) with two on the floor, as well as just people all over the floors. I have gamed in a hotel room before where 7 people were staying. I don't care about fire codes or whatever, that will never stop this and is a non-talking point.

THE FIRST way to do this, and the best way to do this now is limit badges to 1 per credit card. Lock in names and addresses and billing information into Qrooms with that specific badge and credit card that bought that badge with that account name.

During the last two weeks or so when rooms get transferred to the hotel, if someone wants to call and change information then, go for it, but it's too late then for people to book extra rooms or hold onto rooms or sell rooms or transfer as easily. 

There are many ways to stop huge groups all getting 5 or 10 chances when they need literally 1 or 2 rooms. 

The earlier quote about "7 people all needing 1 room only consume 1 room" so it's fine, or whatever was implied, is not true. This pushes 6 people around into later or different timeslots that could have gotten in earlier if it weren't for the 6 of the 7 people trying for a downtown room. 

For instance, 5 people all buy badges. 1 person gets an early downtown time, the other 4 don't. The other 4 don't even check their housing lottery. Those 4 didn't even need lottery times under this "system," but maybe one of those 4 also got an early time, but because of the staggered release of rooms, that person pushed someone out to a time beyond getting the room they wanted.

1 Hotel per 1 Badge is far from the norm of what's needed. I have never spoken with people downtown who came alone and stay alone. It just creates imbalance in the lottery and the staggered release of rooms. Most people who come alone stay on the outskirts so they can make it affordable and cheap.

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Posted by irontk

If you wanted to change it to group based, 
and lets say for instance 1 badge solo gives you a 20% chance to get a downtown time
BUT 4 badges together gets you a 50% chance to get a downtown time, I'd be fine with that. 

BUT if 4 badges in a group still gets you only a 20% chance to get a downtown time, then that's bad system.

Again Gen Con actively supports people grouping up for downtown rooms. 
 

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Posted by nascragman

Even though I ended up with an 8:16 time and didn't get a downtown hotel, I think the system is about as fair as it can get.  There are more people who want rooms than there are available rooms, that's the bottom line.  Everyone logging on at the same time in some sort of bandwidth challenge was ridiculous and a huge waste of everyone's Sunday. The changes this year just made things even fairer (as much as I personally took a hit).

Kudos to Gen Con management.
 

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Posted by lordnlkon rayken

rayken wrote:
You have to devise a system where groups coming together and need ONE room do not have a higher chance of getting a downtown room. 
I have seen MANY years where 5, 6, 7, or 8 people get into a single room. For relatives and close friends, I have seen as many as 3 thinner people in two queens (6) with two on the floor, as well as just people all over the floors. I have gamed in a hotel room before where 7 people were staying. I don't care about fire codes or whatever, that will never stop this and is a non-talking point.
THE FIRST way to do this, and the best way to do this now is limit badges to 1 per credit card. Lock in names and addresses and billing information into Qrooms with that specific badge and credit card that bought that badge with that account name.
During the last two weeks or so when rooms get transferred to the hotel, if someone wants to call and change information then, go for it, but it's too late then for people to book extra rooms or hold onto rooms or sell rooms or transfer as easily. 
There are many ways to stop huge groups all getting 5 or 10 chances when they need literally 1 or 2 rooms. 
The earlier quote about "7 people all needing 1 room only consume 1 room" so it's fine, or whatever was implied, is not true. This pushes 6 people around into later or different timeslots that could have gotten in earlier if it weren't for the 6 of the 7 people trying for a downtown room. 
For instance, 5 people all buy badges. 1 person gets an early downtown time, the other 4 don't. The other 4 don't even check their housing lottery. Those 4 didn't even need lottery times under this "system," but maybe one of those 4 also got an early time, but because of the staggered release of rooms, that person pushed someone out to a time beyond getting the room they wanted.
1 Hotel per 1 Badge is far from the norm of what's needed. I have never spoken with people downtown who came alone and stay alone. It just creates imbalance in the lottery and the staggered release of rooms. Most people who come alone stay on the outskirts so they can make it affordable and cheap.

Sorry but I disagree. 7 people paying for 7 badges($770) should have a better chance than 1 person paying for 1 badge($110). They are paying for it after all. It's not like they are getting it for free. 

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