Housing shock!
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Posted by nascragman rayken

rayken wrote:
You have to devise a system where groups coming together and need ONE room do not have a higher chance of getting a downtown room. 
I have seen MANY years where 5, 6, 7, or 8 people get into a single room. For relatives and close friends, I have seen as many as 3 thinner people in two queens (6) with two on the floor, as well as just people all over the floors. I have gamed in a hotel room before where 7 people were staying. I don't care about fire codes or whatever, that will never stop this and is a non-talking point.
THE FIRST way to do this, and the best way to do this now is limit badges to 1 per credit card. Lock in names and addresses and billing information into Qrooms with that specific badge and credit card that bought that badge with that account name.
During the last two weeks or so when rooms get transferred to the hotel, if someone wants to call and change information then, go for it, but it's too late then for people to book extra rooms or hold onto rooms or sell rooms or transfer as easily. 
There are many ways to stop huge groups all getting 5 or 10 chances when they need literally 1 or 2 rooms. 
The earlier quote about "7 people all needing 1 room only consume 1 room" so it's fine, or whatever was implied, is not true. This pushes 6 people around into later or different timeslots that could have gotten in earlier if it weren't for the 6 of the 7 people trying for a downtown room. 
For instance, 5 people all buy badges. 1 person gets an early downtown time, the other 4 don't. The other 4 don't even check their housing lottery. Those 4 didn't even need lottery times under this "system," but maybe one of those 4 also got an early time, but because of the staggered release of rooms, that person pushed someone out to a time beyond getting the room they wanted.
1 Hotel per 1 Badge is far from the norm of what's needed. I have never spoken with people downtown who came alone and stay alone. It just creates imbalance in the lottery and the staggered release of rooms. Most people who come alone stay on the outskirts so they can make it affordable and cheap.

I honestly couldn't disagree more with this statement.  All of these statements.

If I've paid for a badge, I've paid for a shot at a downtown room.

If I've got friends who've also paid for a badge, they have also purchased their lottery ticket, as it were.

By working together, yes we stand a statistically higher chance of booking a downtown room.  That's how collective action works.  A team is always more effective than an individual.  But, once we get our room, we reduce the load on the rest of the system by not grabbing multiple rooms.  We haven't pushed anyone out of a downtown room.  Perhaps they got a later time, but as we saw this year, as long as there is a dis-incentive to book multiple rooms, the length of time "Downtown" is available expands.

As for staying solo downtown, you're measuring everyone else's financial situation by your ruler.  Some folks book out of block and pay $500 a night for a room.  That's not my financial reality, but it works for others.  I had a few years when my Gen Con room mates dropped out and I had to go solo.  I didn't choose to take a room out by the airport, I just adjusted my budget and stayed where I would have the best experience.

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Posted by shyeyes19

Hang on...so the comment is if you have say 4 people needing one room. They use the first time, and then the other three people "push another three people back" in the lottery into times when they can't get a room. I'm sorry, what? Those three people in the group also aren't getting a room, so while another three people have later times, they are in the exact same place in "line" as they would have been without those three people.

Picture it like a line for a new game. A group of four says they only want one copy of said game (we know this never happens, but pretend), so they only need one of the say 100 copies at the booth. Four other single people also want the game, one a piece. All eight of these people rush to the booth when the doors open. In the group of four, they realize one friend made it pretty close to the front of the line. Cool! That's the person who will get their game! They stay in line chatting with their friend, but when they get to the front, they just get one game. Does this change at all the chance of the other four single people getting a copy of the game?

You have to remember that housing is based on the number of rooms (like the games) and NOT the length of the line you're in to get it. X people taking up X places "in line" for a room does not change the amount of rooms in the pool, nor does it change your chance of getting a room. It gives them MORE chances because they worked together, sure, but it does not change your chance at getting a room, just like more than just the one person buying a game being in line doesn't change your chance at getting a copy.

(That's all assuming the new practice of not allowing transfers, which has clearly helped the "Let's book two just in case" situation that was, admittedly, a problem.)

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Posted by jde9942

I can tell you that last year both me and a buddy got really great queue times, we ended up using his and I let mine expire.  So can say for certain not every "good" queue time is being used,

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Posted by irontk jde9942

jde9942 wrote:
I can tell you that last year both me and a buddy got really great queue times, we ended up using his and I let mine expire.  So can say for certain not every "good" queue time is being used,
my group had 1230, 140 and 220. All were downtown times. We only used one

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Posted by shyeyes19 irontk

irontk wrote:
jde9942 wrote:
I can tell you that last year both me and a buddy got really great queue times, we ended up using his and I let mine expire.  So can say for certain not every "good" queue time is being used,
my group had 1230, 140 and 220. All were downtown times. We only used one
Precisely. Groups "pushing people back" don't change how many "rooms needed" are ahead of you, just at what time you get to that same pool. 

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Posted by irontk shyeyes19

shyeyes19 wrote:
irontk wrote:
jde9942 wrote:
I can tell you that last year both me and a buddy got really great queue times, we ended up using his and I let mine expire.  So can say for certain not every "good" queue time is being used,
my group had 1230, 140 and 220. All were downtown times. We only used one
Precisely. Groups "pushing people back" don't change how many "rooms needed" are ahead of you, just at what time you get to that same pool. 
I'm not sure I understand...

so lets say for example there are 100 people ahead of you, however of that 40 are grouped up with the other 60, wouldn't that in essence mean there is only 60 people ahead of you?

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Posted by shyeyes19 irontk

irontk wrote:
shyeyes19 wrote:
irontk wrote:
jde9942 wrote:
I can tell you that last year both me and a buddy got really great queue times, we ended up using his and I let mine expire.  So can say for certain not every "good" queue time is being used,
my group had 1230, 140 and 220. All were downtown times. We only used one
Precisely. Groups "pushing people back" don't change how many "rooms needed" are ahead of you, just at what time you get to that same pool. 
I'm not sure I understand...so lets say for example there are 100 people ahead of you, however of that 40 are grouped up with the other 60, wouldn't that in essence mean there is only 60 people ahead of you?
Yep, I think this particular chain is all on the same page :) Saying just because people in a group are "pushing people back" timewise, that doesn't mean the number of rooms being used before they get in is changing. Like you said, say there are 100 people ahead, 40 are with the other 60, so there are only 60 ROOMS are ahead of you.

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Posted by squirecam irontk

irontk wrote:
If you wanted to change it to group based, 
and lets say for instance 1 badge solo gives you a 20% chance to get a downtown time
BUT 4 badges together gets you a 50% chance to get a downtown time, I'd be fine with that. 
BUT if 4 badges in a group still gets you only a 20% chance to get a downtown time, then that's bad system.
Again Gen Con actively supports people grouping up for downtown rooms. 
Gencon supported the prior system. Didnt make it right. And that system was changed this year.

You do not need to worry about %. You only need to worry about # in a group. My solution:

One person can buy 6 badges. This group of 6 people can get "6" lotto "chances". But they can only book a double/double room slot. They cannot book a king.

One person buys 2 badges. They get 2 lotto chances. But they can only book a king room.

Saves the larger rooms for large groups and the king rooms for the small ones.

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Posted by irontk squirecam

squirecam wrote:
irontk wrote:
If you wanted to change it to group based, 
and lets say for instance 1 badge solo gives you a 20% chance to get a downtown time
BUT 4 badges together gets you a 50% chance to get a downtown time, I'd be fine with that. 
BUT if 4 badges in a group still gets you only a 20% chance to get a downtown time, then that's bad system.
Again Gen Con actively supports people grouping up for downtown rooms. 
Gencon supported the prior system. Didnt make it right. And that system was changed this year.You do not need to worry about %. You only need to worry about # in a group. My solution:
One person can buy 6 badges. This group of 6 people can get "6" lotto "chances". But they can only book a double/double room slot. They cannot book a king.
One person buys 2 badges. They get 2 lotto chances. But they can only book a king room.
Saves the larger rooms for large groups and the king rooms for the small ones.
my solution is actually the easiest, each person gets a lotto chance, since each person pays the same amount.
part of your badge price is your lotto shoot. So unless groups start paying less, no go.

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