Gen Con | Gen Con Indy 2023

Housing Solutions

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Posted by garhkal trace_sl

 trace_sl wrote:
My fix, monorail system from airport area to the Convention Center. You can have a hotel row and parking and then a system that just runs back and forth.

Na.. Atlantis style teleportation booths.

 robertarnold wrote
#1. it is against the law (ADA act) to ask or demand proof of a disability. It violates a persons privacy to ask about a medical condition. So that won't work. And as stated, the ADA compliant rooms are separate from the block already. Volunteers and vendors are blocked separately also in most cases. But this was a good idea in general!

I've never understood that. How can asking for proof of disability (such as we do for cars being parked in disabled spots, needing to either have the disability plates OR plackards) be illegal/violating privacy...

Posted by hendelbolaf

#27

I am not sure how much easier it is for someone with a disability to walk a block or two or even across a sky bridge or two to get to the convention rather than a few feet from the parking garage to the convention, or get dropped off directly out front.

So the disability reason for wanting to stay downtown does not hold water for me. There seems to be ample areas to rest if needed, although some large groups do seem to take up a lot of hall space that should be used for individuals or smaller groups.

The vendors could also just wheel their inventory out of their car as easy as they could from the hotel room. Actually, I run games and bringing my gear from car has proved easier than bringing it from my hotel to be honest. So the vendors get their rooms reserved first is a silly idea.

As for giving long term convention goers first access, that does not seem to me to be a way to encourage growth or the next generation on convention attendees. It is also not "fair" by most definitions of the word.

The only solutions I see are to have a random lottery for access as they currently do, move the convention somewhere that might be able to better handle it (not sure where), or to let free market supply and demand determine the price. If you really want that downtown room, then be ready to pay $400 to $500 or more for it. I will not. My friend does. So it is to each his own.

Posted by ccapps

#28

Great discussion everyone, and thank you for not turning nasty like the other housing threads.

Posted by aaronmlopez trace_sl

#29

 trace_sl wrote:
My fix, monorail system from airport area to the Convention Center. You can have a hotel row and parking and then a system that just runs back and forth.

Again, you are asking a city to spend millions on a system that may only be used for about 40 days/year. The other 320+ days it will be unused and costly to maintain. This is not a viable solution.

The fact is, there is NO solution for Gen Con because in all honesty, it is probably working the best it can with the resources it has. It is also in the best city for Gen Con for the greater majority of attendees. Is it perfect? No. What is?

The main issues for the very much small number of attendees who are complaining about it all center around housing. (I mean very small because overall, you really don't see a great number of people actually vocalizing a "problem"). Would moving Gen Con fix the housing issues? If you move it to a coast, you will increase the number of people flying in. Those flying spend less as they have much more limited storage for their goods on the flight back than those who drive in. If you move it elsewhere in the middle of the US, you run into even more of a housing "problem" as there will be fewer "connected" hotel rooms. Everybody wants a connected hotel. No matter where you go, someone will be left out, and you may still end up with the same number of dissatisfied people.

Who actually "NEEDS" a connected hotel? Well, nobody does. Handicapped/ADA people? Their homes are probably not connected by a skywalk to the grocery store, school, mall where they live and the are able to get around fine. Vendors? I agree with a previous poster who thought it was easier to just drive in, unload at the door, and then park rather than dragging everything to/from the hotel. Employees? Again I will use the same argument as I used with the handicapped/ADA people. The fact is nobody NEEDS a connected hotel, but we all WANT one. Should there be rewards for attending year after year? Possibly. I join the hotel rewards program and try to stay in the same places when I travel building up to a free night or two. It would be nice if I were to be able to either use my hotel rewards for a free night or more during Gen Con, or use the points to lower my hotel bill. Either way, I get rewards I can use for another trip elsewhere later on.

Posted by rhhata

#30

This will not be popular, but hear goes...

I'm not sure if we are deliberately ignoring this for the sake of discussing other alternatives, but what if Gen Con made the 'housing lottery' a true lottery? At the time of badge purchase, the customer has the option to purchase (non-refundable surcharge) entries in to the housing lottery - already have housing, don't bother and save some money. Want an entry, pay the surcharge. Have money to burn, buy several entries. This would serve to eliminate 'gaming the system', and 'some people don't even want/need it' arguments. It also addresses the 'let the market decide' argument somewhat, without people getting in to an actual bidding war. Everyone's chance is commensurate with the the investment they put in - no more, no less. This would allow Gen Con to continue revenue growth, while capping the number of badges. As Indianapolis facilities grow and expand, the badge cap can be raised.

Of course, there may be legal troubles with the whole 'games of chance' thing in Indiana, I have no idea what the laws are.

I know this won't be popular, and I have no intention of adding to or supporting the ideas presented. As a matter of fact I really just want to step back from the whole housing discussion right now. I simply wanted to get the idea 'on the record'.

Posted by jobeth66 rhhata

#31

 rhhata wrote:
This will not be popular, but hear goes...
I'm not sure if we are deliberately ignoring this for the sake of discussing other alternatives, but what if Gen Con made the 'housing lottery' a true lottery? At the time of badge purchase, the customer has the option to purchase (non-refundable surcharge) entries in to the housing lottery - already have housing, don't bother and save some money. Want an entry, pay the surcharge. Have money to burn, buy several entries. This would serve to eliminate 'gaming the system', and 'some people don't even want/need it' arguments. It also addresses the 'let the market decide' argument somewhat, without people getting in to an actual bidding war. Everyone's chance is commensurate with the the investment they put in - no more, no less. This would allow Gen Con to continue revenue growth, while capping the number of badges. As Indianapolis facilities grow and expand, the badge cap can be raised.
Of course, there may be legal troubles with the whole 'games of chance' thing in Indiana, I have no idea what the laws are.
I know this won't be popular, and I have no intention of adding to or supporting the ideas presented. As a matter of fact I really just want to step back from the whole housing discussion right now. I simply wanted to get the idea 'on the record'.

It's not a horrible idea, but it couldn't be implemented like that - it would most certainly run afoul of gaming laws. What had been suggested that makes sense is GenCon offering several 'levels' of badge - more expensive/higher level offers a downtown hotel room as part of the access - you'd essentially get access to the housing portal to book a downtown room. Say, $400 for a 4-day badge, limited to the number of connected hotel rooms available in block. $300 for a 4-day badge limited to the number of rooms at hotels within a XX block walking distance of the ICC. Next level offers an 'outer rim' hotel room, same thing - access to the housing portal for an outer rim room, say $150 for a 4-day badge, limited to the number of rooms available at outer-rim hotels. Next level offers no housing, say $90 (current pricing) with no limit on how many sold. Then 1 day badges have no hotel room privileges. (I know people will hate that idea, but I think only 4 day badges should have access to block rooms unless rooms open up badge presales are done. If someone who bought a $400 badge cancels it, it and the room they had access to goes back in the pool).

I don't know how do-able that is, but it wouldn't run afoul of gaming laws, and you'd know when you bought your badge what type of location you'd be eligible for.

Posted by bigfathairyguy hendelbolaf

#32

 hendelbolaf wrote:
I am not sure how much easier it is for someone with a disability to walk a block or two or even across a sky bridge or two to get to the convention rather than a few feet from the parking garage to the convention, or get dropped off directly out front.
So the disability reason for wanting to stay downtown does not hold water for me. There seems to be ample areas to rest if needed, although some large groups do seem to take up a lot of hall space that should be used for individuals or smaller groups.
The vendors could also just wheel their inventory out of their car as easy as they could from the hotel room. Actually, I run games and bringing my gear from car has proved easier than bringing it from my hotel to be honest. So the vendors get their rooms reserved first is a silly idea.
As for giving long term convention goers first access, that does not seem to me to be a way to encourage growth or the next generation on convention attendees. It is also not "fair" by most definitions of the word.
The only solutions I see are to have a random lottery for access as they currently do, move the convention somewhere that might be able to better handle it (not sure where), or to let free market supply and demand determine the price. If you really want that downtown room, then be ready to pay $400 to $500 or more for it. I will not. My friend does. So it is to each his own.

+1 pretty much all of this. Also there are close to 500 parking spots on the back side of the convention center. If Gencon doesn't already have these it would seem to be something pretty easy to negotiate to get them. Seems logical to allow vendors to access this lot and put them at offsite hotels.

Posted by divachelle hendelbolaf

#33

I'm very glad it's not a problem for you. Please consider that it is a significant problem for others.
My hubs and I go to the con yearly for the past 6 years or so. Year 1 we stayed at the Marriott property on the canal (Residence Inn, perhaps?). I spent the entire weekend at the hotel because I'm mobility limited. Year 2, hubs went with some buddies and stayed out by the airport. I stayed home. Year 3, we scored a downtown room at the Embassy and had a rental scooter dropped off at the hotel for my use while there. That was my first con. I could only attend bc I had the scooter.
It's not a simply case of stopping to rest. The con space is SO HUGE, and even able-bodied folks are physically tapped out at some point during the con. Add the heat, meds needs, distance to dining venues and activities, even the distance back to the hotel, and I could not physically attend without the scooter and without a close (not necessarily attached) hotel room. Last two years, we were at the Embassy again; this year we booked out of block at the Homewood.
I share all of this to say this: there are preferences, and there are needs. You'd obviously prefer to be downtown with your room; everyone likely would. There are those of us who cannot attend and enjoy the con without that close hotel room.
If you've gotten this far, thanks for listening.

Posted by robertarnold rhhata

#34

This would most defiantly violate the gaming laws of the state. The way it is now you pay nothing for the "room lotto", it costs you nothing. The badge costs you but it is no additional cost (or less of one after the lotto) than it would if you purchase a badge after the lotto. So no real gambling is involved. Your proposal IS gambling under most state laws and would be illegal.

Posted by ryric jobeth66

#35

 jobeth66 wrote:

The problem with this is it just bumps the housing free-for-all back to badge registration. Now everyone would be scrambling to get their badge at exactly noon as soon as registration opens, crashing servers and all the other issues we used to have.

Posted by jobeth66 ryric

#36

 ryric wrote:

 jobeth66 wrote:

Not necessarily, as not everyone who would have been scrambling for a spot in the room line when it opened would WANT to pay $400 for a badge, so the server load would be less, I think. I don't know how MUCH less, but potentially less.

Posted by braewe

#37

Isn't that what VIG badges are already? Proving that people will, in fact, scramble all over each other to pay not $400, but $500 and up for a guaranteed downtown hotel room.

Posted by jobeth66 braewe

#38

 braewe wrote:
Isn't that what VIG badges are already? Proving that people will, in fact, scramble all over each other to pay not $400, but $500 and up for a guaranteed downtown hotel room.

Maybe. I don't know how many people would be interested in paying that much extra, but I suppose I could be underestimating the draw. Of course, for the extra money you could book a nice room out of block. :)

Posted by austicke braewe

#39

 braewe wrote:Isn't that what VIG badges are already? Proving that people will, in fact, scramble all over each other to pay not $400, but $500 and up for a guaranteed downtown hotel room.

New VIGs are $600.

Posted by mhayward1978 braewe

#40

 braewe wrote:
Isn't that what VIG badges are already? Proving that people will, in fact, scramble all over each other to pay not $400, but $500 and up for a guaranteed downtown hotel room.

Not sure how much scrambling there is. Clearly more want in than can get it - but I would be a bit surprised if it would go to even 2,000 which could easily be absorbed by the housing block.

At around $800-1000 it would stop making any sense, as your in block room + badge would cost the same as out of block.

Posted by lmengsol

#41

The easiest solution is to move Gen Con. If people think back to the Milwaukee GC's there were many of the same issues. Many people didn't want it to leave but it did and flourished. I am guessing, we're faced with a similar situation now. Tough choices for a lot of people but gamers will adapt. That's not to say Indy hasn't been a good host it has...but it's time for a change. I am guessing they'll wait until after 2018 to make a decision and see what happens after the 50th but all signs point to change.

Posted by hendelbolaf lmengsol

#42

 lmengsol wrote:
The easiest solution is to move Gen Con. If people think back to the Milwaukee GC's there were many of the same issues. Many people didn't want it to leave but it did and flourished. I am guessing, we're faced with a similar situation now. Tough choices for a lot of people but gamers will adapt. That's not to say Indy hasn't been a good host it has...but it's time for a change. I am guessing they'll wait until after 2018 to make a decision and see what happens after the 50th but all signs point to change.

I would support moving it to Dallas as we have a convention center with 2,000,000 square feet of room and about 60+ hotels within 5 miles of it. Unfortunately, I think only one is directly connected to it but there is a light rail system that has two lines connecting to the convention center and parking is only $15 a day and that is right under the convention center.

Plus DFW Airport is easily accessible by almost any airport in the US directly to save travel time, expense, and hassle. It is in the center of the country geographically and not really that expensive when compared to LA, Chicago, or New York, etc.

I like Indianapolis, but Dallas would be the next best choice if you ask me.

Posted by watchdog

#43

It took 36 posts before this thread morphed into "Gen Con needs to move...". Let's see if we can get to page three next time!

Posted by hendelbolaf watchdog

#44

 watchdog wrote:
It took 36 posts before this thread morphed into "Gen Con needs to move...". Let's see if we can get to page three next time!

Just for the record, I did not start or suggest that it move, I just said if it did that I thought Dallas would be a good fit. I think Indianapolis is great and I think the housing issue will work itself out on its own. Folks that must stay downtown will either get lucky and get a room in the housing portal, pay for it out of the housing block, or just not attend. Any of those is a viable and reasonable resolution.

Besides, the convention is in Indianapolis until at least 2020. After that it is up to Gen Con to decide where it wants to go.

Posted by roganca mhayward1978

#45

 mhayward1978 wrote:

 braewe wrote:
Isn't that what VIG badges are already? Proving that people will, in fact, scramble all over each other to pay not $400, but $500 and up for a guaranteed downtown hotel room.

Not sure how much scrambling there is. Clearly more want in than can get it - but I would be a bit surprised if it would go to even 2,000 which could easily be absorbed by the housing block.At around $800-1000 it would stop making any sense, as your in block room + badge would cost the same as out of block.

That's true but remember a Companion badge comes too. So with friends you can book two DT rooms and split the costs of VIG plus Companion and the value is even greater.

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