Gencon 2016 For the Rich Gamer?
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Posted by squirecam truelink
#51

truelink wrote:
squirecam wrote:
grtbrt wrote:Remember also that because of the popularity of Gencon most Hotels raise their rates for the time period (usually double or almost triple), Why ?? because they can .When Gencon first came to Indy they couldn't get away with that .

And THIS is the point to which Gencon must respond. It DOES have the power to change that. Simply say, after 2020, Gencon will leave Indy...unless changes to fit our gamers are made.If you wont cater to your tourists/convention goers...you should risk losing them.
Gencon responded well during the LGBT fiasco last year.....but I havent seen anything about Public transport or hotel prices, even though those things affect everyone every single year....
​No it isn't. The majority of the downtown hotel rooms are already given to GenCon. They appear to do a fantastic job negotiating this. Saying that they should just demand full control of all rooms is insanity.
Thats not what I said.

I said Gencon should use its power to get a better deal. Just like they did with the LGBT release.

Press release:

Gencon Housing stats...blah blah...sold out in 1.5 hrs downtown. blah blah..

(important caveat upcoming)

While we love Indy, Gencon has heard from its attendees about lack of...housing,shuttle,public transport, rate increases, etc. We thus are taking this opportunity to tell Indy that our attendees need....

If progress is not made, we need to look at options after 2020.

Simple press release that gets the ball rolling. If Gencon actually cares about its attendees problems, then it should use what leverage it has. I've never seen a PR rep from Gencon try it though...despite doing so last year for the LGBT scenario.

And that usage proves that it works !!! The law was changed due to the backlash.

 

Posted by grtbrt
#52

Perhaps you are not aware of how conventions work . Gencon has control over the rooms in its block. Most hotels will not give a convention all its rooms -even if the convention is in the hotel . Ok maybe of the hotle has 20 rooms . The hotel retains control of the rooms and rates for those rooms (they have contracts they need to fufill ,etc...).
Gencon does not have the power to THREATEN the city of Indianapolis nor would it want to take the PR hit for doing so.  Most cities are past the point of submitting to Threats such as that . Even sports teams are having a hard time making demands on cities and they bring a lot more to the city .
And the city does not have the power or inclination to bear down on the Hotels(who are a mix of worldwide and national chains )
So when the City says "ok BYE "- where does Gencon go ?

As to the LGBT -I believe that Gencon stated that it would factor into  the contract after 2020. I might be wrong on that though as I was not privy to the discussions
I think a better comparison would be Gencons response to the high levels of the extra hidden  costs of attendees ( taxes on hotels,food and rental cars,etc ) -which are in the top 5 worst in the United States . No Public statement and not likely any private one .

One is a discrimination issue and the other is a city business issue . 2 very different things

Posted by squirecam grtbrt
#53

grtbrt wrote:
Perhaps you are not aware of how conventions work . Gencon has control over the rooms in its block. Most hotels will not give a convention all its rooms -even if the convention is in the hotel . Ok maybe of the hotle has 20 rooms . The hotel retains control of the rooms and rates for those rooms (they have contracts they need to fufill ,etc...).
Gencon does not have the power to THREATEN the city of Indianapolis nor would it want to take the PR hit for doing so.  Most cities are past the point of submitting to Threats such as that . Even sports teams are having a hard time making demands on cities and they bring a lot more to the city .
And the city does not have the power or inclination to bear down on the Hotels(who are a mix of worldwide and national chains )
So when the City says "ok BYE "- where does Gencon go ?
As to the LGBT -I believe that Gencon stated that it would factor into  the contract after 2020. I might be wrong on that though as I was not privy to the discussions
I think a better comparison would be Gencons response to the high levels of the extra hidden  costs of attendees ( taxes on hotels,food and rental cars,etc ) -which are in the top 5 worst in the United States . No Public statement and not likely any private one .
One is a discrimination issue and the other is a city business issue . 2 very different things
As it has never been tried (except last year, when it worked), you cant say whether a press release will have any effect. Gencon has not tried to do so.

And Indy does NOT want to lose Gencon. I think if Gencon actually tried to do something publically, it would work. You never know unless you try.

As for elsewhere, Gencon could go many places, all with lower hotel prices and better public transportation. Gencon would not be "special" in vegas, but it would cost less for hotel and has great transportation options.

Posted by divachelle
#54

Simply put, GenCon is for gamers who want to play games, buy games, see friends, meet people, eat a variety of food in a variety of settings, stay downtown, not stay downtown, cosplay, not cosplay, and so on. Choose any or all of the above. It's YOUR con, and it's what you make of it. 

It's for anyone and everyone who wants to join, and the experiences are as varied as the gamers.

We are early- and mid-40's, childless and this is our big family vacay for the year. I'm in workforce development and the hubs is a mailman. We make a good living. The two of us drive from West Michigan (4.5 hours) to enjoy this con. We go a bit nuts in the merch hall, and that's ok. 

We all have ask ourselves the same question: is it worth it? For now, for us, the answer is yes. 

Posted by dontadow
#55

To get back on track.

If Gencon provides an estimate, they must include downtown hotels.  It should be presumed that when you go to any attraction you are within walking distance of that attraction.  This way, you have limitations. Else again, we can be super cheap with gencon and stay an hour away at a 40 dollar a night hotel. (or do it very old school gencon and rent a van and sleep in it for 4 days) . Let's remain logical. 

 Gencon would have to provide an estimate on what they advertise.  They advertise heavily True Dungeon as the premium attraction.  Any event estimate should include that a family of 4 would want to do Gencon's premium attraction.  

Also, someone brought up Disney World because it is viewed as the most traveled to "fun" vacation in the country.  Of course we are all gamers with various hobbies and none of us value things the same. But from a "base" point of view disney world is seen by many in the world as the preimum thus kudos to whoever brought the exxample of a "luxury" family vacation.  

If I were to provide an estimate I would have to say 
200 a night x 4 hotel room downtown + taxes = 1,000 
4 badges x 100 
events at 25 for average events and 40 for premium events x 4 = 230 
Food at 10 dollarsa  meal x 4 = 120 .

These would be the basics, eate, sleep and play.  Yes, you can do many free things at gencon. But i'd also argue that to travel to gencon just to do the free things would be interestingly moot as many of the free things, even the event hall would be more convinent elsewhere (attending a writer seminar at a local library or playing games with friends in the basement).  In order to remain unbiased, it's best to stick to step outside of our personal biased and think of what an average person that Gencon is advertising too, thus the initial discussion.  

 

Posted by vutpakdi
#56

If attendance were down significantly, there could be a case made for pressuring the hotels to reduce prices.  Given that attendance is up every year and that current price increases are not enough to decrease demand, a reduction in hotel costs seems unlikely.

For reference, a vacation to Disney World during the same timeframe is:


  • $200 to $450-$630 (+ tax) per night for a hotel on Disney property.  The $200 hotels require bus only transportation.  The $450-$630 hotels are adjacent to a park (walking distance) and equivalent to a "downtown" hotel.
  • 4 day passes are $305 each (+ tax).
  • Food can vary from pretty expensive to very expensive depending on your tastes (assuming that you eat on property.
  • You can go cheaper by staying off property, but then you do need to pay for parking.

Posted by ematuskey
#57

Gen Con is facing the same issue Disneyland, SDCC, PAX, Burning Man, etc is facing: more people want to do the super-fun thing.  Imagine how much more crazy the con would be if prices were any lower than they are now...

Gaming (or media or video games or counter culture) is no longer a niche activity.  But Gen Con is still for the hard core (just look at the Event catalog!)--there are just a lot more of us than there used to be, and more of us can spend the money to go to big cons nowadays.  :p 

Posted by hope pennington squirecam
#58

Posted by rodoubleb
#59

I don't believe anyone has ever posted the actual number or percentage of rooms that go to block.  I've heard some people throwing around words like most and majority, but unless I missed it no one official has ever even hinted at this.  

Posted by rodoubleb rodoubleb
#60

Posted by hawkeye
#61

Probably because those numbers have never been released. Hotels do need to keep rooms aside for various reasons. In 2011, the room we were in had a leaking A/C unit and they had to move us. We were worried that they wouldn't have a spare room, but they did.

That's just one reason, Most hotels also have guaranteed availability for their top tier rewards members.

Posted by garhkal
#62

steffles wrote:
The price for our family this year sure does feel like this is a rich person's Con.  Like the orginial poster, I have a downtown room (for a mere $400 per night out of block with parking), badges for our family of 4 and a husband who makes a good living.  The thing is, I'm starting to feel like a sucker.   These are the prices of a luxury vacation.  
We still manage to run into many of the same people each year, and I love that my kids interact with people of all ages and backgrounds.  For me, even though we can afford this vacation, there comes a price point where shouldn't go.  I'm at that point, but my husband isn't.  And this year, he wins.

I am starting to feel the same way.  When i was active duty, and had that income coming in, i thought little of popping the 700 or so on housing/badge/food, PLUS the cost of airfare coming to the con.  BUT as it started getting more and more expensive, i looked into spending more time GMing, so i can qualify for that badge and room compensation.  There are times it feels more like i am 'working for gencon' not taking a vacation to have fun gaming.

Was it NOT for the fact that without gencon (and origins/Marcon), i would NOT be gaming at all for around the past almost decade (my last 2 duty stations before i retired in 2012 had NO gamers local, or what few ones they had only did CCGs or the like), i would be gaming dry...  SO i put up with it for now.  However, it IS starting to get to that point, i am seriously considering NOT having to put up with all the hassle, just for a 4 day gaming 'holiday'..

genconkeeper wrote:
I think that this is something Gen Con needs to post in their office, the average cost per day for an attendee to go to the show, and then work to make worth the price to go. In a few years Gen Con will be competing with Disney World and other major attractions for a cost to thrill ratio. Dad thinks, for the same money we can go to Disney World or Gen Con? That maybe some people will be thinking about in a few years.
Randu

I would actually LOVE to see statistics showing, say over the past 10 years of Gencon a comparrison between # of attendees, Costs of rooms and Cost of badges..  So we can SEE how much it has increased.
grtbrt wrote:
Remember also that because of the popularity of Gencon most Hotels raise their rates for the time period (usually double or almost triple), Why ?? because they can .When Gencon first came to Indy they couldn't get away with that .

But WHY can they 'get away with it'?  If hotels were jacking up prices that much say during a disaster (like a hurricane in FL, so hotels across the border in Georgia jacks them up) we HAVE seen the DOJ and other orgs be on their butts for 'price gouging'.  SO what makes it ok in THIS case??

 

Posted by wjpennington garhkal
#63

garhkal wrote:
steffles wrote:
The price for our family this year sure does feel like this is a rich person's Con.  Like the orginial poster, I have a downtown room (for a mere $400 per night out of block with parking), badges for our family of 4 and a husband who makes a good living.  The thing is, I'm starting to feel like a sucker.   These are the prices of a luxury vacation.  
We still manage to run into many of the same people each year, and I love that my kids interact with people of all ages and backgrounds.  For me, even though we can afford this vacation, there comes a price point where shouldn't go.  I'm at that point, but my husband isn't.  And this year, he wins.

I am starting to feel the same way.  When i was active duty, and had that income coming in, i thought little of popping the 700 or so on housing/badge/food, PLUS the cost of airfare coming to the con.  BUT as it started getting more and more expensive, i looked into spending more time GMing, so i can qualify for that badge and room compensation.  There are times it feels more like i am 'working for gencon' not taking a vacation to have fun gaming.Was it NOT for the fact that without gencon (and origins/Marcon), i would NOT be gaming at all for around the past almost decade (my last 2 duty stations before i retired in 2012 had NO gamers local, or what few ones they had only did CCGs or the like), i would be gaming dry...  SO i put up with it for now.  However, it IS starting to get to that point, i am seriously considering NOT having to put up with all the hassle, just for a 4 day gaming 'holiday'..
genconkeeper wrote:
I think that this is something Gen Con needs to post in their office, the average cost per day for an attendee to go to the show, and then work to make worth the price to go. In a few years Gen Con will be competing with Disney World and other major attractions for a cost to thrill ratio. Dad thinks, for the same money we can go to Disney World or Gen Con? That maybe some people will be thinking about in a few years.
Randu

I would actually LOVE to see statistics showing, say over the past 10 years of Gencon a comparrison between # of attendees, Costs of rooms and Cost of badges..  So we can SEE how much it has increased.
grtbrt wrote:
Remember also that because of the popularity of Gencon most Hotels raise their rates for the time period (usually double or almost triple), Why ?? because they can .When Gencon first came to Indy they couldn't get away with that .

But WHY can they 'get away with it'?  If hotels were jacking up prices that much say during a disaster (like a hurricane in FL, so hotels across the border in Georgia jacks them up) we HAVE seen the DOJ and other orgs be on their butts for 'price gouging'.  SO what makes it ok in THIS case?? 
Because comsumers don't set the price. As long as they are not pricing over their rack rate, what they are doing is perfectly legal. Its also sound buisness sense, especially for hotels with near maximum occupancy for the time.

 

Posted by suburbaknght garhkal
#64

garhkal wrote:
But WHY can they 'get away with it'?  If hotels were jacking up prices that much say during a disaster (like a hurricane in FL, so hotels across the border in Georgia jacks them up) we HAVE seen the DOJ and other orgs be on their butts for 'price gouging'.  SO what makes it ok in THIS case?? 

Are you seriously comparing raising cost on convenient accomodations to play board games with taking the last penny from a family that's lost their home to a hurricane?  The difference is that you need a palce to live.  You want to go to Gen Con.

If you stay at a remote hotel you'll be inconvenienced.  If you don't go to Gen Con at all you'll be sad.  If you don't have a place to live you're reduced to survival mode against the elements.

Posted by squirecam wjpennington
#65

 
 

I started going to Gencon in Indy in 2005. At that time, You could get a King Room at the Hilton or Hilton Garden Inn for $120 (give or take).

Take that for what it's worth.

Posted by suburbaknght squirecam
#66

squirecam wrote:
 
 

I started going to Gencon in Indy in 2005. At that time, You could get a King Room at the Hilton or Hilton Garden Inn for $120 (give or take).Take that for what it's worth.

And in 2005 there were only about 31,000 people attending Gen Con.  This year twice that is expected.

Posted by squirecam
#67

http://archive.wtsp.com/news/local/article/218416/8/GOP-wants-lower-hotel-rates-for-convention

See above article. Organizations DO attempt to tell hotels what prices to charge. Gencon should at least try to do so.

Posted by wjpennington squirecam
#68

squirecam wrote:
 
 

I started going to Gencon in Indy in 2005. At that time, You could get a King Room at the Hilton or Hilton Garden Inn for $120 (give or take).Take that for what it's worth.
Lots more people. That's a decade ago. Inflation happens as well. Hey, dont get me wrong, up until a few years ago, I scored rooms outside of the block, downtown, well in advance around (and even below) convention rate. But not everyone did that. I had an extra helpful angle. Others thought it was unfair, and wanted more fowntown housing, int he block, at the convention rate. More and more demand came from customers, to GenCon, to get more housing in the block.  Well, GenCon did that. they did what the majority of their customers wanted

So now, the only rooms not in the block are a much smaller percentage. Rack rate rooms that they always had.LAst year was the first year I had to go into the system. Hated it, and I still don't like it. I never asked for, or wanted a 'fair' system, but I also relaize the realities that drive it, and I certainly don't blame the hotels for highly pricing the handful of roosm not in the block.

But back to the impact of GenCons policies. After getting all those rooms, they also went to the lottery..because people mistakenly thought they wanted a more fair system than crash the server.

.Sadly, those who pushed GenCon to the point it went and got almost all rooms in the downtown block in the GenCon system now realize that they wont always get a downtown room due to that 'fair' lottery.

But now if you lose the lottery, you have a much more limited availability of non block roms to go with. Very limited supply, high demand..prices go up, and nothign can be done about it. (Nor should there be)

This all goes to prove, be careful what you ask for fairness, when no one really wants fair.

I'd be happy if the Gencon housing went back to what it was in size, and kept more roosm outside the block, or went away completely. But this is the system we have to deal with.

No system is going to prevent prices from rising as demand rises.  There is no such thing as a fair price.  The right price is what consumers are willing to pay.

And given that those high price rooms are being booked....those prices are right enough for some.

 

Posted by wjpennington squirecam
#69

doublepost

Posted by wjpennington squirecam
#70

squirecam wrote:
http://archive.wtsp.com/news/local/article/218416/8/GOP-wants-lower-hotel-rates-for-convention
See above article. Organizations DO attempt to tell hotels what prices to charge. Gencon should at least try to do so.
Yeah..the GOP. And they ask. You think the GOP might have influence and connections? And what do they do? They..ask. And heck, GenCon has already done more than that: they've secured a majority of the downtown rooms at a rate thats very fair, and very liekly below what demand would otherise set. (Security of the Gencon in advance purchased block outweighs risk inherent in keeping rooms out of the block I'd imagine)

Having doen that,it would be pretty arrogant of them to ask to control out of the block prices as well. In effect, you want GenCon to dictate hotel price rates for every single room, even if its not in the convention block.

 Lets face it, other people come to Indianapolis too and need hotels.

The only way you'll get out of block room rates to go lower is to convince tens of thousands of peopel not to go to Gencon, and decrease attendance, or convince Gencon to not take so many rooms in the block.

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