Well, that's a different issue, but still an issue :)
In the end, the point is the same. As a player, read the description and the other info. As an event organizer, use the description and other info. Also, it would be nice if the GM went over that info before the game started.
Any of these situations can be avoided if you plan your games better or really take stock of what your players are doing and how they are feeling. If people are sitting in a corner because their character is dead 15 minutes in then figure something out to make that person be useful! I only have a limited time at Gen Con to play games - if I'm not having fun, I'm going to leave. End Stop.
Good discussion gang. Continues to help me refine my thoughts and future approach to this topic.
I know that I personally sign up for games with age restrictions because I'm looking to connect with adult gamers who I can make friends with, potentially grab a beer or cocktail with later in the evening, etc. I'm also expecting to be able to maturely interact with those players at the table - not have the mission or story derailed because the 10-year old player has a sword and therefore must use it on every NPC they encounter, etc.
Its the other side of the equation, I think - and points to how Players contribute to bad games at cons as well by not reading and following the event descriptions. Its not always solely on the shoulders of the GM. Similar issues with confrontation, being open/supportive, etc. apply.
There have only been a couple times where I've abandoned RPGs. Two cases before the game started - one where it was obviously geared to younger players (I didn't read the age restrictions) and another hosted by a GM who was a train wreck the previous day - rambling commentary, arbitrary rules, no real cohesion. In the first I excused myself with a "sorry, I think I'm too old for this" and with the second I faked a text. But both were before the games started. In a third instance, I got permission from the GM to play in the first 3 hours of a 4 hour game with the promise to die spectacularly (and it didn't disappoint) - there was no one waiting to fill the seat so I didn't "take" someone's spot. I have been in a game where a member of the party tried to convey their disappointment by asking the GM to pick up play instead of giving a long explanation of every aspect of the world he built but that fell on deaf ears. Usually you know if a game is going to be enjoyable in the first hour. If it's not, I gut it out although my character may be a bit more daring cuz you can leave when your character dies. Had one of those this year. A usually light-hearted RPG with fast combat and party banter essentially became a "tomb of horrors" type dungeon with deadly puzzles that had no rhyme or reason. That one couldn't end soon enough.
Twice, both times at Origins.
First one was Pathfinder Society game. I don't normally do organized play, but this was one of the We Be Goblins games (convention one shot with pre-gens where you play goblins). I had an actual ticket, the game was sold as a 6 player game. Granted I was coming from another game, but I was not late, I was there at 5 to and the game started on the hour. There were already 6 people at the table as they had already sat generics. So they gave the last guy back his generics and sat me. Then the GM informed me that there are only 4 pre-gens with the module and hands me the source book which has goblins in it and tells me to make a character. No Freaking way! I turned around to the dude who just got up and told him to give me the generics and take my seat, he could have it. Don't list a game as 6 players, no materials required, pre-gens provided, for beginners and then only have 4 pre-gens and tell me to make a freaking pathfinder character in 5 min.
Second, was NSDM game - possibly the worst gaming experience I have ever had at a convention. Played one of their quick game contemporary crisis games. A group of 3 of us neebies were stuck together playing North Korea. Every time we turned in orders they were ignored by the GMs who put in only the orders of their pals who apparently played all the time. I literally handed in orders and watched the GM put it aside and then take others' orders and put them in to the computer. And then this series of events happened: S Korean player (one of their Grognard Pals) put in an order conducting sabotage in the north. We as the North, immediately put in orders that we were cracking down and arresting all dissidents and increasing security of the leadership. Of course those orders were ignored and the next event to come up was that South Korean Intelligence had assassinated Kim Jung Un. Really?!?! Are you kidding me?!?!? I was so angry that I walked over packed my stuff up, and walked out of the game. I will NEVER do another NSDM game again. Completely not friendly to new players.
Us scrubs with generously got regular pilots (5/4, and all dice roll are on 2d6) with Inner Sphere (inferior) gear, 8 to 5 numbers.
AND the GM played fast and loose with both the combat rules (specifically targeting comp call shots that missed, but would have hit without the called shot penalty were rolled on the hit table rather than being clean misses) and that if a second mech was in the way it would be hit, even if that meant two Clan pilots were shooting up the same target. He ruled that was not technically violating clan honor rules of no ganging up on targets. Finally when we stumbled over an undeclared line on the map, the clans were "freed" from any honor rules.
Basically the people who showed up for that game that weren't his regular players were fed to those players as XP pinatas.
I've mostly been running games for the last decade or so, but I don't recall ever leaving a game in the middle. There were definitely times that in retrospect, my precious Gen Con time might have been better spent, but the train wrecks make great stories afterwards, while the so-so ones are quickly forgotten.
I've been on the other end of it a few times running Nascrag. We try to make it clear that we are a rules-light roleplaying heavy game that features humor and puzzles and riddles. But still I've gotten a couple of players over the years that saw "Pathfinder" and decided we must be putting on a crunchy combat-based game. One just ghosted after what was supposed to be a bathroom break, and one just stood up and announced "This isn't my sort of game" and walked away.
My advice is to know, as best you can, what sort of game you are getting into. And don't make any assumptions.
Games where your goal is to terminate other players are pretty par for the course in a LARP. Particularly that GM's games, which are literally called 'Courting Murder'. :) The general setting is courtly intrigue/backstabbing/poisoning, get your favorite person on the throne, etc. That particular instance was when he was just turning those games from die-rolling tabletops into no dice LARPs (25 ish years ago), and it was definitely a moment for learning some lessons. But no, having the goal to kill someone else is still very common. Part of what makes it work can be something like a ghost rule, or having more characters ready to be played (we ran an alien invasion end of the world game a few years back...one player played five characters in the end, kept getting killed. They loved it!) Another key however is that the GM has to make killing someone very difficult. And Dave admits that he was still learning at that point. For example, his ghost rule involves the ghost remembering what happened, and their word being accepted in a court of law :) So suddenly it's much harder to do it.
For other Con games, you can either make it 'low lethality' for the first half, or you can have NPCs ready to come in. I think most players understand the point of that at Con games--no one wants to pay for 4 hours and die right away. I just bought an RPG called "Never Going Home" about WWI, and they explain that their game is more about the Unit, and not about the specific characters as much. So there, if you die, there's another corporal who's been hanging back who steps up. Player keeps playing. For D&D, I'll often either fudge the killing role, or ad hoc something. Dead becomes knocked out, or becomes 'the bad guys have you locked away in the next encounter area', something like that.
But of course there are games where dead is dead and that's that. Typically you'll know what sort of game it is going in. Playing Red Shirt Games 'Monster Mash' last year, my buddy didn't even get a turn before three other players ganged up on him and killed him right off the bat. Part of the game there.
Bad games that I have experience are mostly due to the players that show up and less so than the GMs in general.
However, the worst is a group of friends that play as a cliche and exclude other players. Couple this with a GM that does not handle the situation is a receipe for a train wreck. It is interesting which GMs do not handle this situation but instead tries to ignore it. I have walked out on these situations multiple times including where the GM was a special guest of the convention. I expressed this short-coming of the GM to the convention organizers. The GM still shows up as a special guest next year. I avoiding those GMs.
GM is forced to adjust when people who don't read or for whatever reason still secure a ticket show up.
If you are concerned a player is too young, you do have the right to ask them how old they are. If they are below 18, and you are uncomfortable running an adult game for them, just let me know and I'll talk to them and remove them from the game. Because we have 200 games going this year, it will be impossible for me to check everyone coming in to the room. Please use your best judgement in these situations, and I can always be there if you need me. The other admin will also be aware of this possible issue. We didn't have any issues at Gen Con last year that I was made aware of and I was there for almost every game start. ... I looked it up! The Age Requirement is for information for the players and is not a rule that players must abide by. It is simply information to allow them to know that the content of the game is intended for a mature audience. This is why youth have been in 18+ games, as you mentioned, because it isn't a policy so much as it is just information for players signing up. That being said, some of our content is unfit for people under 18+. If you have someone at your table that you are uncomfortable running for because the content of the game is not suitable for their age, please let the room host know.
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I looked it up! The Age Requirement is for information for the players and is not a rule that players must abide by. It is simply information to allow them to know that the content of the game is intended for a mature audience. This is why youth have been in 18+ games, as you mentioned, because it isn't a policy so much as it is just information for players signing up. That being said, some of our content is unfit for people under 18+. If you have someone at your table that you are uncomfortable running for because the content of the game is not suitable for their age, please let the room host know.
All that being said: I didn't have any issues at my tables with underage participants this year.
For D&D, I'll often either fudge the killing role, or ad hoc something. Dead becomes knocked out, or becomes 'the bad guys have you locked away in the next encounter area', something like that.
And if it's something that can't be enforced, WHY Then bother even having an "Age limit" category??
My wife and I left a LARP this year due to illness, but I think it was exhaustion. We ended up feeling better later that night. I also left an event this year for the first time. It was put on by a major gaming group and the event looked pretty. However, it was not the event that was described online and the GM described the event that he was going to run and it didn't interest me at all. I actually left before the event started however.
As far as GMing, I run LARPs myself and like the other GM, it can be very damaging to the game to have players not show up, or worse, bail before the game ends. Or even worse, players who decide that, "This game ends in 20 minutes, I don't care about my character, I'm gonna go on a killing spree" This happened in my game this year and it takes away from the GM's who are guiding the story and providing player assistance.
Age restrictions - our LARPs run late (8pm-12am) and we post the age restriction at Teen. This is primarily because the LARPs are in hotels where alcohol is served and some of our players like to indulge (see below) and some of the themes might not be suitable for younger players. (example: You arraigned to have your husband killed so you could marry your current lover and your goal in the game is to take him for all his money) If I'm playing this character I might feel awkward that my new lover (a character in the game) is a 13 year old. (for the record our LARPS are completely non contact.)
Last year, I had a thread that dealt with disruptive players. I had 2 players that were obviously intoxicated and I had to spend so much time dealing with them that it took away from other players' experience in our game. They eventually calmed down before I had to ask them to leave, but I still had to focus too much time on them.
Personally, I would love for GenCon to be a "dry" event, but when you have late night events in hotels that have places that serve alcohol, and people can legally purchase alcohol do so, I understand that this would be extremely difficult.
I prepare for all of my games as full storied demos with pre-gens, quick reference guides, pencils and dice. If everyone that shows up is a veteran player than we'll probably add another scene to the game and if instead everyone is a noob then I'm prepared to cut a scene to allow time to teach the rules and still finish an engaging story.
So like i said, what's the point then in filling out (or requiring) an Age limit/Experience level required, blocks for when the DM sends his info in to get published. IF even after putting that out, its on HIM, to change to meet the requirements of the entrants, why bother having him DO those line items??
And we got a number of emails asking us if this was going to be a game for little kids. These were people who read the description, didn't buy tickets because of the age limit, but were getting hounded by their kids and emailed us to double check that this was not a game for their little kids. So I think the limits worked then--those people didn't sign up for the game. I think we only got as many emails as we did because no one had done a Potter LARP at Gen Con up to that point, I don't think, and parents of littles were looking for something. (Some friends of ours ran a kids potter larp that year, well attended.)
I'd shudder to think what our Potter LARP this year would have looked like for attendance without age limits in the description. For that world in particular.
See a lot of RPG and LARP here. We're mostly board gamers and have left a table a couple of times in the last 8 years.
We played a Descent type board game 1 vs many where they booked "DM" to 2 tables and you had to wait for them to do one table then the next. We talked to the other players at our table and let them know we wanted to leave, but were willing to stay if they wanted with no issues. Ended up they felt the same we did. We told the person running the game how we felt and they apologized and offered to try to find someone, but we told them we were done and left.
This year we had a learn to play event and the 2 of us ended up on opposite teams each with a random person, not a big deal for us. The learn to play was staggered with another event by an hour so once we were an hour in the person running had to go teach another table. When you get into the meat of a game an hour in, that's not the time to leave new players. The random guys we were paired with then ended up arguing about every rule we didn't know, and we ended up leaving them at the table, with a "you guys don't need us to argue amongst yourselves." and we ditched.
Once three of us showed up to what ended up being 1v1 games so i was with a random person, not a big deal. The other 2 in my group quit half way through, they were playing together and didn't like the game. I stayed, even though i didn't care for it, because the person i was paired with really wanted to play the game. So i gave it my all and gave them a good experience.
I will always voice how we're feeling to who is running the game, if they are there, and if it effects another player will see how they feel about it and salvage it for them if i can.