Ever abandoned a game that is not going well?
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Posted by brotherbock brumcg

brumcg wrote:
brotherbock wrote:Preach it! "Mature themes" and age limits in the description. <Signs up their 10 year old. Gets upset when mature themes are in the game.> Come on!

Two of the worst games that I've played had this issue (among others).  While there were no kids at the table, there were kids in the room.  In one case, we asked the GM to fade to black (he didn't).  In the other case, we frantically tried to get the GM's attention; luckily the table with the kids left because of our game.Neither event had age restrictions.

Well, that's a different issue, but still an issue :)

I'm talking about games that have entire rooms to themselves, and mature themes--no one is acting out or even describing graphic sex or anything. But there are themes of murder, torture, pacts with demons, sometimes characters sneaking off 'off camera' for intimate encounters. And there have been (thankfully only a few) times when parents bring their kids into these games. So now you're handing an 11 year old a character sheet that says "Two years ago you slept with the Queen, and arranged to have the King murdered by selling your soul to a demon." Great. Yep, that's the only character we have left. So...here you go kid!

Posted by brumcg brotherbock

brotherbock wrote:

Well, that's a different issue, but still an issue :)


Ah!  Yes, I misread.

In the end, the point is the same.  As a player, read the description and the other info.  As an event organizer, use the description and other info.  Also, it would be nice if the GM went over that info before the game started.

Posted by funny-shaped dice glory

qwaserity wrote:
The economic principle of "opportunity costs" applies to this discussion, especially at GenCon. Every minute you spend doing something is a minute you're not doing something else. For example, every minute I spend typing this post is a minute I'm not dating a super model. At GenCon, every minute you are playing a bad game, you are NOT playing a good game or walking the dealer's hall or all of the other fun events only possible at GenCon. 

Yep, so true about "opportunity costs" - two things prompted me starting this thread. 

  1. Trying to open a discussion about how to improve the quality of games/interactions at Gen Con without resorting to public shaming of GMs who may be inexperienced or unaware that the way they are coming to the table for a 4-hour one-shot con game should not be the way they come to the table for their regular home group.
  2. Looking for an exit strategy - when needed - that the community thought would work without resorting to lying but while reducing the opportunity costs to me as an attendee.

qwaserity wrote:Again, we have only limited time at GenCon so I can and will abandon a game but only if it doesn't cause problems with the rest of the table. RPG #1 was the worst session of D&D I've played in the last 40 years but if the DM was any good, they could modify the second session of the game to run with less players. 

This point right here is what I think keeps most of us at the table even when it becomes obvious that the game is "bad" - its that social contract again and the fact that our hobby is so focused around groups and getting along.  I don't want to disappoint the other players at the table - impact their fun - and so I'll put up with something that I probably shouldn't. 
glory wrote:I've walked out of a few games.  What do all of these things have in common? The GM lost control of the game and wasn't making sure people were having fun. These sessions are generally only four hours and they are ONE SHOTS. They should not have hour long combats to start. They should not have puzzles that are so difficult a table of 6 people working together can't figure them out. They should not have TWELVE PCs at the table. 

Any of these situations can be avoided if you plan your games better or really take stock of what your players are doing and how they are feeling. If people are sitting in a corner because their character is dead 15 minutes in then figure something out to make that person be useful! 
I only have a limited time at Gen Con to play games - if I'm not having fun, I'm going to leave. End Stop. 
 


Agree.  Way up above in the topic, I mentioned that I think a key contributor to this problem is lack of EQ on the part of the GM - the games I've most wanted to leave over the years were ones in which I typically felt ignored or where my reasonable requests were denied ("Can I use an Intelligence check to solve this puzzle we obviously can't solve with our own brains?") or where the GM was way more interested in sticking to their script/novel rather than playing a roleplaying game.

Good discussion gang.  Continues to help me refine my thoughts and future approach to this topic.
 

Posted by funny-shaped dice brotherbock

brotherbock wrote:Preach it! "Mature themes" and age limits in the description. <Signs up their 10 year old. Gets upset when mature themes are in the game.> Come on!

OMG.  This is such a pet-peeve of mine - I almost mentioned it in my most recent post to this thread; decided to leave it out - went back to catch up on the thread and, here it is!

I know that I personally sign up for games with age restrictions because I'm looking to connect with adult gamers who I can make friends with, potentially grab a beer or cocktail with later in the evening, etc.  I'm also expecting to be able to maturely interact with those players at the table - not have the mission or story derailed because the 10-year old player has a sword and therefore must use it on every NPC they encounter, etc.

Its the other side of the equation, I think - and points to how Players contribute to bad games at cons as well by not reading and following the event descriptions.  Its not always solely on the shoulders of the GM.  Similar issues with confrontation, being open/supportive, etc. apply.

Posted by garhkal brumcg

brotherbock wrote:
funny-shaped dice wrote: If I'm a person who avoids or is bad with confrontation, then what? I'm stuck? That's certainly not right either.

Well, it's not great. But not 'right'? If the player is the one who doesn't like/want to confront anyone, GMs included, then the burden is on the player in that case. Particularly if the GM has made it clear that they would like to hear from the players if anything isn't going right.

Exactly.  If the DM has made every effort to get feedback, but the players are not giving him any, what's he supposed to do?  Read their minds?
brotherbock wrote:No, there are limits to how much you have to do, of course. If someone is playing a thief and isn't happy because they wanted to play a wizard...well, tough luck.I'm talking about a lot of the examples in this thread. GM plans a dungeon with a sh!t-ton of doors...and the party has no thief. Great, make those doors easier to open, or trap them instead of locking them, etc. Change it on the fly when you see what the realities are.

That makes some sense. 
brotherbock wrote:One of my favorite GMs started one of his iconic LARP rules years ago back in Milwaukee when someone died 5 minutes into the game. Someone else had the goal of killing that character, and very surprisingly managed to do it in 5 minutes. In a 4 hour game.

Ouch.  Dead, 5 min in?  Maybe the DM should have not had it as a goal (X player kill Y character)..
Though that brings up a related question.
How SHOULD a DM in an RPG setting, handle it, when a player's character dies off relatively soon?
I've had some DM's suggest that the module maker, do it so they don't HAVE any real 'hard combats' in the first hr or 2 of a module, saving them all for the big finale.  BUT even then, if a player's having a really shitty die day, even an "easy" combat, can land someone at deaths door...
What then?
brumcg wrote:
brotherbock wrote:Preach it! "Mature themes" and age limits in the description. <Signs up their 10 year old. Gets upset when mature themes are in the game.> Come on!

Two of the worst games that I've played had this issue (among others).  While there were no kids at the table, there were kids in the room.  In one case, we asked the GM to fade to black (he didn't).  In the other case, we frantically tried to get the GM's attention; luckily the table with the kids left because of our game.Neither event had age restrictions.

To ME, that seems more of a Convention scheduling problem, NOT a DM problem.
If i have sent in my event(s), and i've made it known there's mature themes, and there's an age limit, i don't think the con should be putting me in the same room as where kids are..
NOW if i didn't put IN an age limit, that's on ME< if i keep mature elements in the game..
Hence why I as a DM, ask the players (especially the parents), do you wish me to keep the mature elements in or go "PG-13"...
I've actually had some parents who say "keep it as is"...
brotherbock wrote:I'm talking about games that have entire rooms to themselves, and mature themes--no one is acting out or even describing graphic sex or anything. But there are themes of murder, torture, pacts with demons, sometimes characters sneaking off 'off camera' for intimate encounters. And there have been (thankfully only a few) times when parents bring their kids into these games. So now you're handing an 11 year old a character sheet that says "Two years ago you slept with the Queen, and arranged to have the King murdered by selling your soul to a demon." Great. Yep, that's the only character we have left. So...here you go kid!

Sounds to me like the maker of that module/evnt, SHOULD have put in age limits then!
brumcg wrote:
brotherbock wrote:Well, that's a different issue, but still an issue :)

Ah!  Yes, I misread.In the end, the point is the same.  As a player, read the description and the other info.  As an event organizer, use the description and other info.  Also, it would be nice if the GM went over that info before the game started.

Yea.  I've lost track of the # of times an event lists "Experience needed, game won't be taught", and someone shows up expecting to be 'shown the ropes', cause they've never played it before.
Or like the group i mostly game with had, an event where it flat out says "Event is only for those with active characters, NO new characters will be allowed to get made to come into the event", yet we STILL had folk, show up who were new, and had no characters..

 

Posted by jpederso

There have only been a couple times where I've abandoned RPGs.  Two cases before the game started - one where it was obviously geared to younger players (I didn't read the age restrictions) and another hosted by a GM who was a train wreck the previous day - rambling commentary, arbitrary rules, no real cohesion.  In the first I excused myself with a "sorry, I think I'm too old for this" and with the second I faked a text.  But both were before the games started.  In a third instance, I got permission from the GM to play in the first 3 hours of a 4 hour game with the promise to die spectacularly (and it didn't disappoint) - there was no one waiting to fill the seat so I didn't "take" someone's spot.  I have been in a game where a member of the party tried to convey their disappointment by asking the GM to pick up play instead of giving a long explanation of every aspect of the world he built but that fell on deaf ears.  Usually you know if a game is going to be enjoyable in the first hour.  If it's not, I gut it out although my character may be a bit more daring cuz you can leave when your character dies.  Had one of those this year.  A usually light-hearted RPG with fast combat and party banter essentially became a "tomb of horrors" type dungeon with deadly puzzles that had no rhyme or reason.  That one couldn't end soon enough.    

Posted by aklevah

Twice, both times at Origins. 

First one was Pathfinder Society game.  I don't normally do organized play, but this was one of the We Be Goblins games (convention one shot with pre-gens where you play goblins).  I had an actual ticket, the game was sold as a 6 player game. Granted I was coming from another game, but I was not late, I was there at 5 to and the game started on the hour.  There were already 6 people at the table as they had already sat generics.  So they gave the last guy back his generics and sat me.  Then the GM informed me that there are only 4 pre-gens with the module and hands me the source book which has goblins in it and tells me to make a character.  No Freaking way!  I turned around to the dude who just got up and told him to give me the generics and take my seat, he could have it. Don't list a game as 6 players, no materials required, pre-gens provided, for beginners and then only have 4 pre-gens and tell me to make a freaking pathfinder character in 5 min.

Second, was NSDM game - possibly the worst gaming experience I have ever had at a convention.  Played one of their quick game contemporary crisis games.  A group of 3 of us neebies were stuck together playing North Korea.  Every time we turned in orders they were ignored by the GMs who put in only the orders of their pals who apparently played all the time.  I literally handed in orders and watched the GM put it aside and then take others' orders and put them in to the computer.  And then this series of events happened:  S Korean player (one of their Grognard Pals) put in an order conducting sabotage in the north.  We as the North, immediately put in orders that we were cracking  down and arresting all dissidents and increasing security of the leadership.  Of course those orders were ignored and the next event to come up was that South Korean Intelligence had assassinated Kim Jung Un.  Really?!?!  Are you kidding me?!?!?  I was so angry that I walked over packed my stuff up, and walked out of the game.  I will NEVER do another NSDM game again.  Completely not friendly to new players. 

Posted by nikas zekeval aklevah

aklevah wrote:
Second, was NSDM game - possibly the worst gaming experience I have ever had at a convention.  Played one of their quick game contemporary crisis games.  A group of 3 of us neebies were stuck together playing North Korea.  Every time we turned in orders they were ignored by the GMs who put in only the orders of their pals who apparently played all the time.  I literally handed in orders and watched the GM put it aside and then take others' orders and put them in to the computer.  And then this series of events happened:  S Korean player (one of their Grognard Pals) put in an order conducting sabotage in the north.  We as the North, immediately put in orders that we were cracking  down and arresting all dissidents and increasing security of the leadership.  Of course those orders were ignored and the next event to come up was that South Korean Intelligence had assassinated Kim Jung Un.  Really?!?!  Are you kidding me?!?!?  I was so angry that I walked over packed my stuff up, and walked out of the game.  I will NEVER do another NSDM game again.  Completely not friendly to new players. 

Yeah I had this experience that drove me out of Battletech for years.  Short form, early days of the Clans, and the GM allowed 'campaign' characters at a small local Con.  Guess what, they only people with them were is buddies, all 1/0 skilled characters with Dire Wolves.  To non BT players, that kind of skill is absolute best of named main hero characters in the supporting fiction with decades of experience AND the mechs were probably some of the most powerful in the entire game.

Us scrubs with generously got regular pilots (5/4, and all dice roll are on 2d6) with Inner Sphere (inferior) gear, 8 to 5 numbers.

AND the GM played fast and loose with both the combat rules (specifically targeting comp call shots that missed, but would have hit without the called shot penalty were rolled on the hit table rather than being clean misses) and that if a second mech was in the way it would be hit, even if that meant two Clan pilots were shooting up the same target.  He ruled that was not technically violating clan honor rules of no ganging up on targets.  Finally when we stumbled over an undeclared line on the map, the clans were "freed" from any honor rules.

Basically the people who showed up for that game that weren't his regular players were fed to those players as XP pinatas.

Posted by brumcg garhkal

garhkal wrote:
=inheritTwo of the worst games that I've played had this issue (among others).  While there were no kids at the table, there were kids in the room.  In one case, we asked the GM to fade to black (he didn't).  In the other case, we frantically tried to get the GM's attention; luckily the table with the kids left because of our game.Neither event had age restrictions.

To ME, that seems more of a Convention scheduling problem, NOT a DM problem.
If i have sent in my event(s), and i've made it known there's mature themes, and there's an age limit, i don't think the con should be putting me in the same room as where kids are..
NOW if i didn't put IN an age limit, that's on ME< if i keep mature elements in the game..

To be clear, in these games, there were no age restrictions or anything in the descriptions to indicate mature content.  That's why I was so surprised.

Posted by nascragman

I've mostly been running games for the last decade or so, but I don't recall ever leaving a game in the middle.  There were definitely times that in retrospect, my precious Gen Con time might have been better spent, but the train wrecks make great stories afterwards, while the so-so ones are quickly forgotten.

I've been on the other end of it a few times running Nascrag.  We try to make it clear that we are a rules-light roleplaying heavy game that features humor and puzzles and riddles.  But still I've gotten a couple of players over the years that saw "Pathfinder" and decided we must be putting on a crunchy combat-based game.  One just ghosted after what was supposed to be a bathroom break, and one just stood up and announced "This isn't my sort of game" and walked away.

My advice is to know, as best you can, what sort of game you are getting into.  And don't make any assumptions.

Posted by brotherbock garhkal

garhkal wrote:
brotherbock wrote:One of my favorite GMs started one of his iconic LARP rules years ago back in Milwaukee when someone died 5 minutes into the game. Someone else had the goal of killing that character, and very surprisingly managed to do it in 5 minutes. In a 4 hour game.

Ouch.  Dead, 5 min in?  Maybe the DM should have not had it as a goal (X player kill Y character)..
Though that brings up a related question.
How SHOULD a DM in an RPG setting, handle it, when a player's character dies off relatively soon?
I've had some DM's suggest that the module maker, do it so they don't HAVE any real 'hard combats' in the first hr or 2 of a module, saving them all for the big finale.  BUT even then, if a player's having a really shitty die day, even an "easy" combat, can land someone at deaths door...
What then?

Games where your goal is to terminate other players are pretty par for the course in a LARP. Particularly that GM's games, which are literally called 'Courting Murder'. :) The general setting is courtly intrigue/backstabbing/poisoning, get your favorite person on the throne, etc. That particular instance was when he was just turning those games from die-rolling tabletops into no dice LARPs (25 ish years ago), and it was definitely a moment for learning some lessons. But no, having the goal to kill someone else is still very common. Part of what makes it work can be something like a ghost rule, or having more characters ready to be played (we ran an alien invasion end of the world game a few years back...one player played five characters in the end, kept getting killed. They loved it!) Another key however is that the GM has to make killing someone very difficult. And Dave admits that he was still learning at that point. For example, his ghost rule involves the ghost remembering what happened, and their word being accepted in a court of law :) So suddenly it's much harder to do it.

For other Con games, you can either make it 'low lethality' for the first half, or you can have NPCs ready to come in. I think most players understand the point of that at Con games--no one wants to pay for 4 hours and die right away. I just bought an RPG called "Never Going Home" about WWI, and they explain that their game is more about the Unit, and not about the specific characters as much. So there, if you die, there's another corporal who's been hanging back who steps up. Player keeps playing. For D&D, I'll often either fudge the killing role, or ad hoc something. Dead becomes knocked out, or becomes 'the bad guys have you locked away in the next encounter area', something like that.

But of course there are games where dead is dead and that's that. Typically you'll know what sort of game it is going in. Playing Red Shirt Games 'Monster Mash' last year, my buddy didn't even get a turn before three other players ganged up on him and killed him right off the bat. Part of the game there.

garhkal wrote:
brotherbock wrote:I'm talking about games that have entire rooms to themselves, and mature themes--no one is acting out or even describing graphic sex or anything. But there are themes of murder, torture, pacts with demons, sometimes characters sneaking off 'off camera' for intimate encounters. And there have been (thankfully only a few) times when parents bring their kids into these games. So now you're handing an 11 year old a character sheet that says "Two years ago you slept with the Queen, and arranged to have the King murdered by selling your soul to a demon." Great. Yep, that's the only character we have left. So...here you go kid!

Sounds to me like the maker of that module/evnt, SHOULD have put in age limits then!

The ones I'm talking about are our games, and we do put in age limits and maturity warnings. Both in the Age Requirement field, and also in our game descriptions. But GC doesn't prevent someone who doesn't meet the age limit from buying a ticket, and a parent can buy a ticket for their child, so you still get people showing up with kids who are too young.

Posted by stahlnee aklevah

aklevah wrote:
Twice, both times at Origins. 
First one was Pathfinder Society game.  I don't normally do organized play, but this was one of the We Be Goblins games (convention one shot with pre-gens where you play goblins).  I had an actual ticket, the game was sold as a 6 player game. Granted I was coming from another game, but I was not late, I was there at 5 to and the game started on the hour.  There were already 6 people at the table as they had already sat generics.  So they gave the last guy back his generics and sat me.  Then the GM informed me that there are only 4 pre-gens with the module and hands me the source book which has goblins in it and tells me to make a character.  No Freaking way!  I turned around to the dude who just got up and told him to give me the generics and take my seat, he could have it. Don't list a game as 6 players, no materials required, pre-gens provided, for beginners and then only have 4 pre-gens and tell me to make a freaking pathfinder character in 5 min.
Second, was NSDM game - possibly the worst gaming experience I have ever had at a convention.  Played one of their quick game contemporary crisis games.  A group of 3 of us neebies were stuck together playing North Korea.  Every time we turned in orders they were ignored by the GMs who put in only the orders of their pals who apparently played all the time.  I literally handed in orders and watched the GM put it aside and then take others' orders and put them in to the computer.  And then this series of events happened:  S Korean player (one of their Grognard Pals) put in an order conducting sabotage in the north.  We as the North, immediately put in orders that we were cracking  down and arresting all dissidents and increasing security of the leadership.  Of course those orders were ignored and the next event to come up was that South Korean Intelligence had assassinated Kim Jung Un.  Really?!?!  Are you kidding me?!?!?  I was so angry that I walked over packed my stuff up, and walked out of the game.  I will NEVER do another NSDM game again.  Completely not friendly to new players. 

Similar experience with NSDM game. Recommend to avoid these offerings for the exact reasoning.

Posted by stahlnee

Bad games that I have experience are mostly due to the players that show up and less so than the GMs in general.

However, the worst is a group of friends that play as a cliche and exclude other players. Couple this with a GM that does not handle the situation is a receipe for a train wreck. It is interesting which GMs do not handle this situation but instead tries to ignore it. I have walked out on these situations multiple times including where the GM was a special guest of the convention. I expressed this short-coming of the GM to the convention organizers. The GM still shows up as a special guest next year. I avoiding those GMs.

Posted by stahlnee brotherbock

brotherbock wrote:
garhkal wrote:
brotherbock wrote:One of my favorite GMs started one of his iconic LARP rules years ago back in Milwaukee when someone died 5 minutes into the game. Someone else had the goal of killing that character, and very surprisingly managed to do it in 5 minutes. In a 4 hour game.

Ouch.  Dead, 5 min in?  Maybe the DM should have not had it as a goal (X player kill Y character)..
Though that brings up a related question.
How SHOULD a DM in an RPG setting, handle it, when a player's character dies off relatively soon?
I've had some DM's suggest that the module maker, do it so they don't HAVE any real 'hard combats' in the first hr or 2 of a module, saving them all for the big finale.  BUT even then, if a player's having a really shitty die day, even an "easy" combat, can land someone at deaths door...
What then?
Games where your goal is to terminate other players are pretty par for the course in a LARP. Particularly that GM's games, which are literally called 'Courting Murder'. :) The general setting is courtly intrigue/backstabbing/poisoning, get your favorite person on the throne, etc. That particular instance was when he was just turning those games from die-rolling tabletops into no dice LARPs (25 ish years ago), and it was definitely a moment for learning some lessons. But no, having the goal to kill someone else is still very common. Part of what makes it work can be something like a ghost rule, or having more characters ready to be played (we ran an alien invasion end of the world game a few years back...one player played five characters in the end, kept getting killed. They loved it!) Another key however is that the GM has to make killing someone very difficult. And Dave admits that he was still learning at that point. For example, his ghost rule involves the ghost remembering what happened, and their word being accepted in a court of law :) So suddenly it's much harder to do it.
For other Con games, you can either make it 'low lethality' for the first half, or you can have NPCs ready to come in. I think most players understand the point of that at Con games--no one wants to pay for 4 hours and die right away. I just bought an RPG called "Never Going Home" about WWI, and they explain that their game is more about the Unit, and not about the specific characters as much. So there, if you die, there's another corporal who's been hanging back who steps up. Player keeps playing. For D&D, I'll often either fudge the killing role, or ad hoc something. Dead becomes knocked out, or becomes 'the bad guys have you locked away in the next encounter area', something like that.
But of course there are games where dead is dead and that's that. Typically you'll know what sort of game it is going in. Playing Red Shirt Games 'Monster Mash' last year, my buddy didn't even get a turn before three other players ganged up on him and killed him right off the bat. Part of the game there.
garhkal wrote:
brotherbock wrote:I'm talking about games that have entire rooms to themselves, and mature themes--no one is acting out or even describing graphic sex or anything. But there are themes of murder, torture, pacts with demons, sometimes characters sneaking off 'off camera' for intimate encounters. And there have been (thankfully only a few) times when parents bring their kids into these games. So now you're handing an 11 year old a character sheet that says "Two years ago you slept with the Queen, and arranged to have the King murdered by selling your soul to a demon." Great. Yep, that's the only character we have left. So...here you go kid!

Sounds to me like the maker of that module/evnt, SHOULD have put in age limits then!

The ones I'm talking about are our games, and we do put in age limits and maturity warnings. Both in the Age Requirement field, and also in our game descriptions. But GC doesn't prevent someone who doesn't meet the age limit from buying a ticket, and a parent can buy a ticket for their child, so you still get people showing up with kids who are too young.

Experience and age restrictions in event descriptions have never precluded folks from signing up. It does not work.

GM is forced to adjust when people who don't read or for whatever reason still secure a ticket show up.

 

Posted by funny-shaped dice stahlnee

stahlnee wrote:Experience and age restrictions in event descriptions have never precluded folks from signing up. It does not work.

GM is forced to adjust when people who don't read or for whatever reason still secure a ticket show up.


I ran games for Magpie Games this year - all of their games were flagged "mature" and I addressed this topic with the Event Organizer prior to the Con and her responses were perfect:
If you are concerned a player is too young, you do have the right to ask them how old they are. If they are below 18, and you are uncomfortable running an adult game for them, just let me know and I'll talk to them and remove them from the game. Because we have 200 games going this year, it will be impossible for me to check everyone coming in to the room. Please use your best judgement in these situations, and I can always be there if you need me.  The other admin will also be aware of this possible issue. We didn't have any issues at Gen Con last year that I was made aware of and I was there for almost every game start.

...

I looked it up! The Age Requirement is for information for the players and is not a rule that players must abide by. It is simply information to allow them to know that the content of the game is intended for a mature audience. This is why youth have been in 18+ games, as you mentioned, because it isn't a policy so much as it is just information for players signing up. 
That being said, some of our content is unfit for people under 18+. If you have someone at your table that you are uncomfortable running for because the content of the game is not suitable for their age, please let the room host know.


Since Age Restrictions are really for informational purposes only, not really an enforceable Policy, I'm not sure how strongly you can really ask someone to prove their age *BUT* it doesn't matter: this Event Organizer made enforcing Age Requirements and keeping their volunteer GMs comfortable a priority - they made it their problem not mine - which I really appreciated.  Can't recommend them enough.

All that being said: I didn't have any issues at my tables with underage participants this year.

Posted by garhkal stahlnee

nikas zekeval wrote:Basically the people who showed up for that game that weren't his regular players were fed to those players as XP pinatas.

I hate going to 'established' groups and seeing that happen.  IMO that's what can drive AWAY newer players to that game..
brotherbock wrote:

For D&D, I'll often either fudge the killing role, or ad hoc something. Dead becomes knocked out, or becomes 'the bad guys have you locked away in the next encounter area', something like that.


I've never been a fan of fudging the die, BUT for situations where (say early on) in a combat, IF IT makes sense for the baddies to take prisoners, they WILL do so.  Plus when i write in early combats in a module, i often put in "THIS Baddy looks to take a prisoner" or "This one will always opt to maim someone, rather than kill"...
BUT even then, there's times 'death happens'...
brotherbock wrote:But of course there are games where dead is dead and that's that. Typically you'll know what sort of game it is going in. Playing Red Shirt Games 'Monster Mash' last year, my buddy didn't even get a turn before three other players ganged up on him and killed him right off the bat. Part of the game there.

LOL.  Sounds like mindless bashing fun!
brotherbock wrote:The ones I'm talking about are our games, and we do put in age limits and maturity warnings. Both in the Age Requirement field, and also in our game descriptions. But GC doesn't prevent someone who doesn't meet the age limit from buying a ticket, and a parent can buy a ticket for their child, so you still get people showing up with kids who are too young.

Sounds like someone needs to get ON Gencon's case then..  IF i age limit event A, then to ME, it is borked up, that they let ANYONE buy a bloody ticket for it..
stahlnee wrote:Experience and age restrictions in event descriptions have never precluded folks from signing up. It does not work.GM is forced to adjust when people who don't read or for whatever reason still secure a ticket show up.

But why SHOULD the Gm, have to adjust what he's got planned, CAUSE FOLKS couldn't read??  Or didn't WANT to read..

And if it's something that can't be enforced, WHY Then bother even having an "Age limit" category?? 

Posted by kidlidar

My wife and I left a LARP this year due to illness, but I think it was exhaustion.  We ended up feeling better later that night.  I also left an event this year for the first time.  It was put on by a major gaming group and the event looked pretty.  However, it was not the event that was described online and the GM described the event that he was going to run and it didn't interest me at all.  I actually left before the event started however.

As far as GMing, I run LARPs myself and like the other GM, it can be very damaging to the game to have players not show up, or worse, bail before the game ends.  Or even worse, players who decide that, "This game ends in 20 minutes, I don't care about my character, I'm gonna go on a killing spree"  This happened in my game this year and it takes away from the GM's who are guiding the story and providing player assistance.  

Age restrictions - our LARPs run late (8pm-12am) and we post the age restriction at Teen.  This is primarily because the LARPs are in hotels where alcohol is served and some of our players like to indulge (see below) and some of the themes might not be suitable for younger players.  (example: You arraigned to have your husband killed so you could marry your current lover and your goal in the game is to take him for all his money)  If I'm playing this character I might feel awkward that my new lover (a character in the game) is a 13 year old.  (for the record our LARPS are completely non contact.)

Last year, I had a thread that dealt with disruptive players.  I had 2 players that were obviously intoxicated and I had to spend so much time dealing with them that it took away from other players' experience in our game.  They eventually calmed down before I had to ask them to leave, but I still had to focus too much time on them.

Personally, I would love for GenCon to be a "dry" event, but when you have late night events in hotels that have places that serve alcohol, and people can legally purchase alcohol do so, I understand that this would be extremely difficult.

Posted by mu skulls frank garhkal

garhkal wrote:
 

But why SHOULD the Gm, have to adjust what he's got planned, CAUSE FOLKS couldn't read??  Or didn't WANT to read..And if it's something that can't be enforced, WHY Then bother even having an "Age limit" category?? 

The GM SHOULD because there's a good chance that's what they're going to get unfortunately. New players don't navigate the game description format well because they're just not used to it. Sometimes it's been awhile since the player ran the game and when they actually start to play, the rules knowledge is more rusty than they thought. Then the convention sometimes shoehorns late entry placement of family friendly events in with my mature themes MU Skulls Cthulhu events. With space limitations and human nature it's just not quite enough resources to make the whole thing work completely flawlessly I guess.

I prepare for all of my games as full storied demos with pre-gens, quick reference guides, pencils and dice. If everyone that shows up is a veteran player than we'll probably add another scene to the game and if instead everyone is a noob then I'm prepared to cut a scene to allow time to teach the rules and still finish an engaging story. 

Posted by garhkal

So like i said, what's the point then in filling out (or requiring) an Age limit/Experience level required, blocks for when the DM sends his info in to get published. 
IF even after putting that out, its on HIM, to change to meet the requirements of the entrants, why bother having him DO those line items??

Posted by brotherbock garhkal

garhkal wrote:
So like i said, what's the point then in filling out (or requiring) an Age limit/Experience level required, blocks for when the DM sends his info in to get published. 
IF even after putting that out, its on HIM, to change to meet the requirements of the entrants, why bother having him DO those line items??

You do get people who ignore/don't read the age requirements. But that doesn't mean that no one reads them, and that they don't have some effect. The first year we ran a Harry Potter LARP, which was...hold on...2006...we decided to run a LARP for adults, like we usually do, but in the Potter world. We listed it as some version of adult. Not sure anymore what the categories were back then. We might have even gone down to a 13 age limit. But we didn't want little kids.

And we got a number of emails asking us if this was going to be a game for little kids. These were people who read the description, didn't buy tickets because of the age limit, but were getting hounded by their kids and emailed us to double check that this was not a game for their little kids. So I think the limits worked then--those people didn't sign up for the game. I think we only got as many emails as we did because no one had done a Potter LARP at Gen Con up to that point, I don't think, and parents of littles were looking for something. (Some friends of ours ran a kids potter larp that year, well attended.)

I'd shudder to think what our Potter LARP this year would have looked like for attendance without age limits in the description. For that world in particular.

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