Magic the Gathering ( Locked)
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Posted by brotherbock xanathon
#26

xanathon wrote:
derekguder wrote:
xanathon wrote:
GenCon could also enforce compliance with their timelines.  It makes GenCon and Pastimes look bad as they can't meet or enforce time lines for when the events go live.

We always add late events leading up to the show.Late events mean more games and more people playing games, so that policy is not going to change.
If you are unhappy with the timeline for event release for a particular gaming group or company, contact them directly and encourage them to submit earlier.
-
Derek Guder
Event Manager
Gen Con LLC
That's not my job.  I believe that would fall under your responsibilities and not something that you can pass onto others.

It's also not Derek's job to force anyone to submit events. It is acceptable and within Gencon event policy for anyone to submit events after the initial priority period. You can submit an event NOW, after event reg is live, if you want. Perfectly acceptable. 

That a company chose to wait is their issue. What should Derek do? Tell them to submit by March or not at all? Would you like that instead? No MtG events because Derek didn't accept late events? Or should he drive to their houses and force them to fill out paperwork? 

One of my favorite groups didn't submit a BSG larp this year. Is that Derek's fault? 

It is not Gencon's obligation to make sure another company keeps *you* happy.

Posted by mhayward1978 brotherbock
#27

brotherbock wrote:One of my favorite groups didn't submit a BSG larp this year. Is that Derek's fault? 

Clearly yes!  Further I demand Derick make them apologize to you!

Posted by mhayward1978 jfrazier12
#28

jfrazier12 wrote:
Any idea if there are commander events?  I'm just happy that there will be magic events.. I was going to be bummed going to Gencon without it. 

There have been commander events the last few years - I'd be quite surprised if not.  Mostly 4 player games that go once there is a group of 4.

Posted by mhayward1978 jfrazier12
#29

jfrazier12 wrote:
I didn't start this thread for people to bitch.  Just a simple yes or no question.  

Welcome to the internet - we hope you enjoy your stay!

Posted by kaledor
#30

Well anyone want to play modern / standard / 93/94 on Wed?

Oh yeah... still no MtG listed.

Posted by san_fan_49
#31

I keep looking too. I made it into three events that I wanted and the rest would be filled up with MTG (hopefully eternal masters drafts are in there).

Posted by jmiller1138
#32

After seeing the spoilers this week, Eternal Masters drafts are going to be difficult to get into.

Posted by jmiller1138 brotherbock
#33

brotherbock wrote:
xanathon wrote:
derekguder wrote:
xanathon wrote:
GenCon could also enforce compliance with their timelines.  It makes GenCon and Pastimes look bad as they can't meet or enforce time lines for when the events go live.

We always add late events leading up to the show.Late events mean more games and more people playing games, so that policy is not going to change.
If you are unhappy with the timeline for event release for a particular gaming group or company, contact them directly and encourage them to submit earlier.
-
Derek Guder
Event Manager
Gen Con LLC
That's not my job.  I believe that would fall under your responsibilities and not something that you can pass onto others.

It's also not Derek's job to force anyone to submit events. It is acceptable and within Gencon event policy for anyone to submit events after the initial priority period. You can submit an event NOW, after event reg is live, if you want. Perfectly acceptable. That a company chose to wait is their issue. What should Derek do? Tell them to submit by March or not at all? Would you like that instead? No MtG events because Derek didn't accept late events? Or should he drive to their houses and force them to fill out paperwork? 
One of my favorite groups didn't submit a BSG larp this year. Is that Derek's fault? 
It is not Gencon's obligation to make sure another company keeps *you* happy.

It's not Gencon's obligation to make Pastimes submit their stuff on time, or even be a good vendor for mtg events.  But it is their obligation to take the feedback on Pastimes and use that information when finding a vendor to put those events on.  If they catch heat every year because people are unhappy with Pastimes, then they may reconsider their relationship with them.

Posted by njseahawksfan jmiller1138
#34

jmiller1138 wrote:
brotherbock wrote:
xanathon wrote:
derekguder wrote:
xanathon wrote:
GenCon could also enforce compliance with their timelines.  It makes GenCon and Pastimes look bad as they can't meet or enforce time lines for when the events go live.

We always add late events leading up to the show.Late events mean more games and more people playing games, so that policy is not going to change.
If you are unhappy with the timeline for event release for a particular gaming group or company, contact them directly and encourage them to submit earlier.
-
Derek Guder
Event Manager
Gen Con LLC
That's not my job.  I believe that would fall under your responsibilities and not something that you can pass onto others.

It's also not Derek's job to force anyone to submit events. It is acceptable and within Gencon event policy for anyone to submit events after the initial priority period. You can submit an event NOW, after event reg is live, if you want. Perfectly acceptable. That a company chose to wait is their issue. What should Derek do? Tell them to submit by March or not at all? Would you like that instead? No MtG events because Derek didn't accept late events? Or should he drive to their houses and force them to fill out paperwork? 
One of my favorite groups didn't submit a BSG larp this year. Is that Derek's fault? 
It is not Gencon's obligation to make sure another company keeps *you* happy.
It's not Gencon's obligation to make Pastimes submit their stuff on time, or even be a good vendor for mtg events.  But it is their obligation to take the feedback on Pastimes and use that information when finding a vendor to put those events on.  If they catch heat every year because people are unhappy with Pastimes, then they may reconsider their relationship with them.

GenCon has been very responsive to complaints about vendors.  Notice how Whiz Kids has no booth or presence this year or last year?  

Fact is, Pasttimes might be less than stellar, but I'm not aware of anyone else in the area who would want run an event the size of GenCon.  It is larger than most GP's, runs longer and later than any GP's, and despite their repeated organizational pratfalls, I'm guessing the number of actual filled complaints is not sufficient enought to merit action.  There's a huge difference between typing out a post on a message board and actually filing a complaint. 

Magic events are a major part of GenCon for me, and as much as it irritates the heck out of me that they still aren't posted yet, the thought of having PES or some smaller outfit run GenCon's MtG events scares the crap out of me.

Posted by san_fan_49 jmiller1138
#35

jmiller1138 wrote:
After seeing the spoilers this week, Eternal Masters drafts are going to be difficult to get into.

I know, that is why I try and look a few times a day....I was able to pre-order a box online for $265 shipped though.

Posted by brotherbock jmiller1138
#36

jmiller1138 wrote:It's not Gencon's obligation to make Pastimes submit their stuff on time, or even be a good vendor for mtg events.  But it is their obligation to take the feedback on Pastimes and use that information when finding a vendor to put those events on.  If they catch heat every year because people are unhappy with Pastimes, then they may reconsider their relationship with them.

A lot of assumptions there. Are there other companies waiting, or asking, to run MtG events? If you or someone else submitted a MtG event, would it be rejected? 

How many people are complaining? I don't mean complaining to you at GenCon, I mean submitting complaints to GenCon? Keep in mind there are 60 thousand attendees. What's the total draw for MtG events? What percentage of people are complaining? Without that data, I am unmoved by GenCon's refusal to listen to complaints. There are I think about five complaints here. Not saying there aren't more. I don't have that data. Do you? 

Posted by mhayward1978 njseahawksfan
#37

njseahawksfan wrote:
GenCon has been very responsive to complaints about vendors.  Notice how Whiz Kids has no booth or presence this year or last year?

Yes, I did.  And because I actually spoke with people at WizKids (I'm not sure what Whiz Kids is) about the situation, I have a belief that they stopped going to GenCon because they decided it wasn't a good con for them, not because GenCon gave them the boot - and in fact GenCon was trying to get them to buy a bigger booth the year they stopped coming.
 

Posted by mhayward1978 brotherbock
#38

brotherbock wrote:If you or someone else submitted a MtG event, would it be rejected? 

How many people are complaining? I don't mean complaining to you at GenCon, I mean submitting complaints to GenCon? Keep in mind there are 60 thousand attendees. What's the total draw for MtG events? What percentage of people are complaining? Without that data, I am unmoved by GenCon's refusal to listen to complaints. There are I think about five complaints here. Not saying there aren't more. I don't have that data. Do you? 


Other people have submitted MtG events - they are on the schedule.

That being said, Magic run by Pastimes is clearly one of the biggest things at GenCon..

Mining an event spreadsheet export from after 8/2 last year Pastimes Magic events were:

#1 of all event hosts in terms of allocated event seats with 22,612.

#2 of all event hosts terms of number of events offered (behind True Dungeon)

#4 of all event hosts in terms of face value of pre-sold tickets (behind True Dungeon, Baldman Games D&D, and Paizo Inc.'s Pathfinder events).

Also - a huge proportion of Pastimes magic events are not presold, they run nonstop sit-and-go tournaments that run once they hit the requisite 4 or 8 players.  You can find Magic players on this very forum saying not to bother pre-buying Magic tickets, just show up as none of the Pastimes events sell out.  

GenCon maintains a long hours (I've never seen it closed) generic ticket sale kiosk in the Magic hall - I haven't seen them do that for any other event.

Complaints wise I don't know - and I agree it's not up to GenCon staff to somehow force Pastimes into compliance.  But let's be honest that Magic events are a huge part of GenCon.

 

Posted by san_fan_49 mhayward1978
#39

mhayward1978 wrote:
brotherbock wrote:If you or someone else submitted a MtG event, would it be rejected? How many people are complaining? I don't mean complaining to you at GenCon, I mean submitting complaints to GenCon? Keep in mind there are 60 thousand attendees. What's the total draw for MtG events? What percentage of people are complaining? Without that data, I am unmoved by GenCon's refusal to listen to complaints. There are I think about five complaints here. Not saying there aren't more. I don't have that data. Do you? 

Other people have submitted MtG events - they are on the schedule.That being said, Magic run by Pastimes is clearly one of the biggest things at GenCon..
Mining an event spreadsheet export from after 8/2 last year Pastimes Magic events were:
#1 of all event hosts in terms of allocated event seats with 22,612.
#2 of all event hosts terms of number of events offered (behind True Dungeon)
#4 of all event hosts in terms of face value of pre-sold tickets (behind True Dungeon, Baldman Games D&D, and Paizo Inc.'s Pathfinder events).
Also - a huge proportion of Pastimes magic events are not presold, they run nonstop sit-and-go tournaments that run once they hit the requisite 4 or 8 players.  You can find Magic players on this very forum saying not to bother pre-buying Magic tickets, just show up as none of the Pastimes events sell out.  
GenCon maintains a long hours (I've never seen it closed) generic ticket sale kiosk in the Magic hall - I haven't seen them do that for any other event.
Complaints wise I don't know - and I agree it's not up to GenCon staff to somehow force Pastimes into compliance.  But let's be honest that Magic events are a huge part of GenCon.
 

Some events will sell out though, as in any eternal masters drafts they offer. Just look at the last few years when modern masters drafts were offered, those sold out quickly for the most part.

Posted by papalorax
#40

This isn't the case of your favorite little company not getting there events submitted (I am looking at you White Wizard games/ EPIC Card Game)...this one of the single largest things that goes on at gencon from a space, players,  and revenue standpoint. I would be stunned if no one at GenCon is working directly with Pasttimes for months ahead of time to get into the catalog...so I have no idea how this has gotten to be so bad.

 

Posted by njseahawksfan papalorax
#41

papalorax wrote:
This isn't the case of your favorite little company not getting there events submitted (I am looking at you White Wizard games/ EPIC Card Game)...this one of the single largest things that goes on at gencon from a space, players,  and revenue standpoint. I would be stunned if no one at GenCon is working directly with Pasttimes for months ahead of time to get into the catalog...so I have no idea how this has gotten to be so bad.
 
One need to look no further than Pasttimes.  GenCon is running a convention that has thousands and thousands of events ... if a group can't get their shit together enough to submit on time, GenCon isn't going to chase after them. 

Also, I'm not aware of any exclusivity agreement that GenCon has with Pasttimes, which means that *anyone* would be free to run their own Magic the Gathering events. 

Posted by brotherbock mhayward1978
#42

mhayward1978 wrote:
brotherbock wrote:If you or someone else submitted a MtG event, would it be rejected? How many people are complaining? I don't mean complaining to you at GenCon, I mean submitting complaints to GenCon? Keep in mind there are 60 thousand attendees. What's the total draw for MtG events? What percentage of people are complaining? Without that data, I am unmoved by GenCon's refusal to listen to complaints. There are I think about five complaints here. Not saying there aren't more. I don't have that data. Do you? 

Other people have submitted MtG events - they are on the schedule.That being said, Magic run by Pastimes is clearly one of the biggest things at GenCon..
Mining an event spreadsheet export from after 8/2 last year Pastimes Magic events were:
#1 of all event hosts in terms of allocated event seats with 22,612.
#2 of all event hosts terms of number of events offered (behind True Dungeon)
#4 of all event hosts in terms of face value of pre-sold tickets (behind True Dungeon, Baldman Games D&D, and Paizo Inc.'s Pathfinder events).
Also - a huge proportion of Pastimes magic events are not presold, they run nonstop sit-and-go tournaments that run once they hit the requisite 4 or 8 players.  You can find Magic players on this very forum saying not to bother pre-buying Magic tickets, just show up as none of the Pastimes events sell out.  
GenCon maintains a long hours (I've never seen it closed) generic ticket sale kiosk in the Magic hall - I haven't seen them do that for any other event.
Complaints wise I don't know - and I agree it's not up to GenCon staff to somehow force Pastimes into compliance.  But let's be honest that Magic events are a huge part of GenCon.
 
 mhayward1978 wrote:Complaints wise I don't know - and I agree it's not up to GenCon staff to somehow force Pastimes into compliance.  But let's be honest that Magic events are a huge part of GenCon.

No disagreement from me. I'm just commenting on the anger over Gencon not 'doing something about all the complaints'. How many complaints? That's a bit like some people I know complaining about 'all the people gaming the welfare system'. Oh yeah? How many? 

This claims need statistics to carry any weight at all, that's all I was saying. 

Posted by papalorax njseahawksfan
#43

njseahawksfan wrote:
=inherit GenCon isn't going to chase after them. 

If that is true...bad on GenCon.

Posted by jfrazier12
#44

Any ideas when the mtg events are going to make it through editing and make the event list? 

Posted by njseahawksfan jfrazier12
#45

jfrazier12 wrote:
Any ideas when the mtg events are going to make it through editing and make the event list? 
Last year there were almost 800 MtG events ... so it might take awhile.

http://gencon.highprogrammer.com/gencon-indy-2015.cgi/type/TCG/Magic%3a_the_Gathering
 

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