Event meant specifically for bullying ( Locked)
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Posted by uncacreamy

garkhal: This has actually been the point of study for a few people, and it really is a thing, that the majority of fanfiction writers are women. At one point the estimation was that 90% of them were women, and I'm willing to bet that it's not that far off the mark now either.
 Fanfiction authors aren't 'snagging' anything. Fanfiction is a transformative thing; taking the product and saying 'what if this thing happened instead'. The way that Stoppard did with 'Shakespeare in Love', 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead', or the movie "Clueless" did with "Emma". 

This event is not an event designed to critique anything. This event is designed, specifically, to laugh at the work in question. This is not a reading club. They're not discussing the use of symbolism in the work. They are, and is says it in the description itself: LAUGHING AT THE WORK IN QUESTION.

Yes. Amateur comedians and musicians to small events to get their start. When they do this, they sign up for the experience. They know, going in, what the deal is. When an author puts work up to be read, it is not intended for an audience in a convention. There are some authors who intend hilarity, and it seems as if those are the ones that the event organizer seems to be targetting. But for the most part, these stories are meant for the community in which the author  posts their work. 

When I brought this up, I didn't ask for someone to be 'banned for being bad'. I asked that it get taken down because it seemed to be mean spirited and awful. I don't see a value in an event meant specifically to step on people, and I was hoping that Gencon cared about people enough to do so.

 

Posted by garhkal

brotherbock wrote:Good post Bloodlust. And it's nice to see that the event is *intended* to not be as much of  a tearing down of people as it might be. But the concern was warranted given the description. 
My concern is with reactions here. The people here claiming that this is all just overworked political correctness are just naive about the issue. That's not an attack, I'm not questioning intelligence or ethics. Just info about a topic. 
Something isn't bullying because it's critical and negative. It isn't bullying because it 'makes someone feel bad'. Bullying involves an attack against the powerless or relatively powerless. That's the key. Bullying is an abuse of power. 

..snip..

It's a choice, folks. You can choose what makes you happy and what doesn't. But ignoring power abuse with strawman arguments is naive. There is a difference between criticism and bullying/abuse. A real difference. 


Nicely put..  Cudos dude!
wjmacguffin wrote:To me, there are two more important questions: 
1) Can you poke fun at a given work without poking fun at the creator, especially if the creator is not named? If you kick the creation, does that automatically mean you kick its creator? 
2) If you mock a work and not a person, does that make you disrespectful? I would argue that yes, you can make fun of something (Plan 9 From Outer Space) without tearing down the creator (Ed Wood). I'm not saying every case of mockery is respectful. If this panel planned on showing pictures of the authors and calling them no-talet hacks, then you would definitely be correct. AFAIK, the panel will only focus on the writing. That means it can serve as constructive criticism for the rest of us — to see what bad writing looks like, so it's easier for us to avoid falling into that kind of writing. 
I would also argue that no, mocking a given work is not the same thing as mocking a person. True, it can go too far. If someone wrote a respectful piece of fanfic but failed because they are still learning how to use grammar effectively, then I wouldn't find humor in reading it. But if we're talking about Laura Croft having sex with a dinosaur, I see no problem in mocking that. 
I hear your concerns about the power differential. A room full of people is a big difference than one person typing away in her room. But since the panel will NOT be naming anyone or giving contact information, I don't see who is being bullied.

Another good post.  Also one of the often key things i hear people bringing up on other sites, is Intent.  Is the intent of this to demean, or is the intent of this, to point out flaws? 
I liken it to some of the better 'counseling sessions' i got in the military versus some of the worst ones i had to endure.
The better ones, pointed out what was wrong, WHY they were seen as wrong, and what i could do to either avoid doing the same in the future, or how to do them, but in a proper manner.
The bad ones, just ragged on me for how dumb i was for doing 'the thing' time and time again, and how Poor i was as a sailor for not recognizing the mistakes myself...
brotherbock wrote:Yes, it's possible to criticize the work and not abuse the author. Is the abuse easy to keep from happening in a forum like this? And again, we know now what the intended purpose is. But we're in part just talking theory here. But suppose one work that wasn't intended to be crappy and was an authentic attempt at writing made its way onto the list? Is the crowd signing up for *this* event, a *crowd* of people, really going to be able to stop at just criticism of the writing? Mobs and group-think are real things. And when you've got potential for abuse of the powerless, what's warranted is an over-cautious approach. The risk and results of abuse happening is worse than the negative effects of restricting the actions of the people in power. In this example, this would mean that not allowing or very carefully monitoring this event is better than running the risk of some poor kid getting crapped on.

I agree, that having an event like this CAN be fraught with danger, especially where you get group thing/mob-mentality involved, but stopping it ahead of time for what COULD happen, rather than what will/shall happen is kind of censoring things a little too much.  Its kind of like schools that got rid of tag/dodge ball, cause they felt it MIGHT hurt kids feelings getting picked last for one of the teams. 
joegamer wrote:
What ever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me. People made fun of me because I played D&D. Now they make fun of me because they say I'm to old to play video games. Who cares what other people think or say?

Unsure.  I know as a kid growing up in the 70s, that was still the mentality, but as society progressed into the mid-late 80s and beyond, it started getting 'used less and less'.  To where we are now, where it seems people find offense with a lot of things said, even if not directed TO Them..
wjmacguffin wrote:For me, there are generally three levels of concern about any GenCon event: 

  1. The event sounds just peachy (like your basic D&D event)
  2. The event sounds sketchy (like this one)
  3. The event sounds like bullshit (like the Blissology sales seminar)

I think sketchy events deserve extra attention before accepting or rejecting them, but I like the idea of letting people decide if they want to go, not GenCon's employees. So yes, I would accept your SPA cosplay mocking event. But no, I would not attend it. To me, there's a difference between something clearly wrong and something that *could* go wrong.
 


I agree.  There are 3 grades, and only the last one should be seen as 'not for our convention' by the staff.  Let the other 2 stand on their own two feet, and be made or broken by how many show up..
 

Posted by msbliss indigopet

indigopet wrote:
From twitter:
Deanna Morea @TheBlissologist bliss-ol-o-gy (noun) The art of taking a woman from b*tch to bliss to bed: Requires no diamonds, chocolate or batteries. Even if you don't know the right words.
WOOHOO! only $4!!! Sign me up!!!!
Here's some great info from one of her articles:Be sure and keep yourself in prime condition. Keep your appearance nice and trim, while staying in shape and taking care of yourself.Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/4485304
Hope y'all are working out!! 
The b*tch to bliss to bed vocabulary was abandoned a long time ago.  It was recommended by marketing people when we first began our company. My mistake.  All the guidance and marketing you pay for doesn't always work and sometimes isn't good. My company was new and I was stumbling through it to begin.

My work doesn't have any thing to do with sex, or pick up artists, or conning women.  My work comes from being a women over stressed in our current society (hence feeling like a b*tch from on the inside looking out, not my feeling that women are bitches) with few coping mechanisms other than drugs and alcohol to try to destress and relax enough to be a better mother, friend and wife.  I discovered this work as a result of being a single mother with a full time job, with no support and managing a boarding house on the side to make ends meet.  The stress was unbearable at times and I found that this technique worked so quickly and easily to reduce stress and increase connection. That said, I love teaching my work to couples (and single men who want to find the love of their life) because learning how to nurture a woman and help her reduce stress is the best way to keep you love alive and have a healthy sex life.  When women are stressed they can't really think about being intimate with their partner.  It takes far longer to get their head out of their task list of chores going on in the back of their brain.

I couldn't be more disappointed or heartbroken to see my events cancelled. My passion is for helping women and their partners find their way back to love more often, more easily and quicker.

By the way, the initial marketing was suggested by men to get men interested in learning more about how to connect. Connection is key to intimacy if you want it to be meaningful.

Posted by mhayward1978 msbliss

msbliss wrote:I couldn't be more disappointed or heartbroken to see my events cancelled. My passion is for helping women and their partners find their way back to love more often, more easily and quicker.
By the way, the initial marketing was suggested by men to get men interested in learning more about how to connect. Connection is key to intimacy if you want it to be meaningful.

I'm going to take you at your word here, and give you the benefit of the doubt that you're trying to be helpful, and you think you have a non-sexual, connection based technique to teach people how to improve their relationships.

If that's true - you really need to change your tag line under your twitter page at https://twitter.com/theblissologist @theblissologist.com - as the "b*tch to bliss to bed: Requires no diamonds, chocolate or batteries." is seriously giving the wrong impression.

It makes you sound like you're trying the same stuff as despicable PUA culture promotes - which I gather is not how you'd like to be viewed.

Posted by mhayward1978 garhkal

garhkal wrote:
jcirillo1971 wrote
And most REAL authors don't approve of the intellectual theft of their characters being used in fan faction...but that is a different argument entirely which has nothing to do with GenCon.

While i wouldn't have put it that way, its a good point.  What makes fan fic authors ok to snag creative content often without permission, but people critiquing those same authors not ok??

I believe the expression is "two wrongs don't make a right."

Whether or not fan fic authors are legally or ethically good in their extension of material produced by others does not determine whether convening a public event to laugh at the creative output for those authors is ethically good or should be sanctioned as a GenCon event. (unless the grounds for the decision relate to copyright - which is not the discussion we're having).

 

Posted by msbliss jessicalprice

jessicalprice wrote:
You love, nurture, and connect with women the same way you love, nurture, and connect with anyone else: by treating us as individual and unique humans, not as some sort of computers you can hack. 
Take your misogynist bullshit elsewhere. 
Yep and I teach communication tools as well as my technique in my class.  However, science has proven that men and women respond differently to stress and the masculine construct we live in. This technique works on men and women but the percent of women how respond intensely is higher. I am not a misogynist, I am woman who experienced the significant shift of stress and stress chemistry that made a difference in my life and I began to study what was happening.  I found that it had the same effect on hundreds of other women and made them feel happier and better even on the worst of days.  Again, I am not sure why so many people are bashing what they know nothing about.

I am new to Gencon.  It was gencon fans who came to my classes and knew my work from experience that told me to teach at gencon because it would be such a great help to teach games some new tools for successful relationships. I don't know when the best time slot is for my event, I am not teaching pick-up techniques, I am actually helping couples foster connection in a deeper way by showing them how to get stress brain chemistry out of the way quickly. I am authentically trying to help people find love and keep it in this stressful world we live in.

Men and women are different and they relate differently.  For example, the masculine energy is fed by results.  EX: how much money did this make, how many points did they win by, how big was the fish, how expensive is the car, etc.

Feminine energy is not fed by results but by experience. How did it feel? EX: How was your day? Did you have fun? What it felt like to have lunch and laugh with a friend, how it felt to ace the exam, etc.

While we all have masculine and feminine energy women often run feminine energy more often and have less stress when they can share and express that energy. But we live in a masculine society and almost every job you can hold is based in all results and very little about the experience of it when it comes to review and reward. 

There is so much more to the story about relating, success in relationships, and how to bridge the differences. I love helping people succeed more and struggle less at love.

This is why:

Of all the things you can do, achieve or become, none of them is as rich as when you have someone to share it with. I have found and kept an amazing relationship for the last 16 years and simply want to help others (who want it) find that happiness as well.

Posted by msbliss mhayward1978

mhayward1978 wrote:
msbliss wrote:I couldn't be more disappointed or heartbroken to see my events cancelled. My passion is for helping women and their partners find their way back to love more often, more easily and quicker.
By the way, the initial marketing was suggested by men to get men interested in learning more about how to connect. Connection is key to intimacy if you want it to be meaningful.

I'm going to take you at your word here, and give you the benefit of the doubt that you're trying to be helpful, and you think you have a non-sexual, connection based technique to teach people how to improve their relationships.If that's true - you really need to change your tag line under your twitter page at https://twitter.com/theblissologist @theblissologist.com - as the "b*tch to bliss to bed: Requires no diamonds, chocolate or batteries." is seriously giving the wrong impression.
It makes you sound like you're trying the same stuff as despicable PUA culture promotes - which I gather is not how you'd like to be viewed.
Yes thank you for that.  I will do my best.  That was work for marketers we hired in the very beginning of our business.  Unfortunately starting and running a business is very hard work when you are going it on your own.  I have literally spent more than $200,000 to produce the video, create the website, hire marketers, pay for the medical studies we did and the $40,000 we lost to shisters along the way.  Many heartbreaking losses along the way to try to find my way to creating the business that has the vision to help millions. I am not the geek I wish I were who would know how to do everything from the webpage to the twitter. We are out of money now to hire anyone else to do the technical work and learning takes time. I will look into how to change it. I have to learn it without the help of professionals or millenials who get this stuff so quickly.

At this point it is a moot point.  The class is cancelled because my twitter account says b*tch.

Posted by jessicalprice mhayward1978

mhayward1978 wrote:
msbliss wrote:I couldn't be more disappointed or heartbroken to see my events cancelled. My passion is for helping women and their partners find their way back to love more often, more easily and quicker.
By the way, the initial marketing was suggested by men to get men interested in learning more about how to connect. Connection is key to intimacy if you want it to be meaningful.

I'm going to take you at your word here, and give you the benefit of the doubt that you're trying to be helpful, and you think you have a non-sexual, connection based technique to teach people how to improve their relationships.If that's true - you really need to change your tag line under your twitter page at https://twitter.com/theblissologist @theblissologist.com - as the "b*tch to bliss to bed: Requires no diamonds, chocolate or batteries." is seriously giving the wrong impression.
It makes you sound like you're trying the same stuff as despicable PUA culture promotes - which I gather is not how you'd like to be viewed.
Women aren't a monolith, and neither are men. We're overlapping bell curves. 

I read through your site, and I find it stereotypical, shallow, and insulting. 

And, given that men refusing to respect women's physical boundaries at game conventions is an enduring and serious problem, hosting an event in this environment teaching that women can be controlled by touch isn't only insulting and in poor taste, it's dangerous.  

I'm relieved that your event got canceled. I would not feel safe at a convention that allowed it. 

Posted by jessicalprice

And a company that uses a slur in their slogan has no place at a convention like Gen Con.

Posted by msbliss uncacreamy

uncacreamy wrote:
wjmacguffin wrote:
msbliss wrote:Sadly you must not have read anything about my work with Blissology. I suppose you haven't bothered to check out the website either. I taught both my Archetype class and the into to Blissology last year to a small class and everyone in attendance gave me outstanding feedback. If you don't want to know anything more about how to love, nurture, and connect with women then don't come but it's super unkind to bash what you have no idea about and even worse to sabotage someones genuine hard work to make a positive difference in the world.I have taught my class to many very satisfied participants in NYC, FL, CA, NV, and in Australia. People pay $199 per couple to come to my classes. To get an intro to my work for $4 is pretty much like getting it for free. I have spend 12 years studying brain chemistry and how my technique can reduce stress and increase connection, love and a peaceful life in relationship. The society we live in is wrought with, stress, worry, and struggles of every kind.  Those stresses can negatively effect you love life and in some cases destroy love that was there in the beginning.  Knowing new ways to nurture a woman in your life can make a significant difference. I am dedicated to my work because I have seen it make a real difference in people's lives. I have paid more than $10,000 to study and test what I do so I can show verifiable results in minutes.
Sadly the uninformed attacks of my classes got them cancelled a couple of hours before registration. Thankfully they are back up and available for registration but not in time for the masses of people who were choosing their schedules. If my event is bullshit to you that's fine, you don't even know what it is, but to ruin the chance for anyone else who might want to know more about how to connect and create a happier love life...well, that's crap.

Actually, I did visit your site. A friend pointed your workshop out to me, so I checked out beahero.com to figure out why she had a huge problem with it. I quickly saw a few problems: 

  1. This has absolutely nothing to do with gaming. Throwing in a line saying, "Gaming is more fun when you have someone to share it with" doesn't make it appropriate for a gaming convention any more than a workshop advertising ice cream because "Gaming is more fun when you have ice cream." Both are true. Neither makes that workshop about gaming or geek culture.
  2. It feeds into several offensive stereotypes about gender, such as women are so complex and difficult to understand and men are dumb and need help understanding what women want. Seriously, this reeks of pickup artist bullshit. I don't just find Blissology to be unrelated to GenCon, I find it offensive. And I'm not the only one. 
  3. It's focused solely on men touching women. There's nothing about women understanding men better, or men with men, or women with women. Just one piece of the spectrum.
  4. People are different and varied. Any claim to understand "What women wish men knew" is going to be lopsided at best and most likely inaccurate.
  5. From your website: "If you think: 'Oh I got that, she is very happy in that department' ...." That is clearly a veiled sexual comment. I'm a big fan of sex, but I'm NOT a fan of a workshop at GenCon about it. And if it doesn't have sexual overtones, why is this workshop only for 18+? If a workshop about men touching women is inappropriate for teenagers, then it's inappropriate period. 

Another line from your site: "[Blissology] is highly effective at making women feel amazing." Yep. No sexual connotation there. Not at all. Listen, I'm sure you spent a lot of time and money putting this all together. I'm equally sure you have training and education. None of that matters. A skilled plumber or a Ph.D. in Theology has all of that too. That doesn't mean a workshop from them is automatically good. I never addressed you as a person; just your workshop. 
For the record, I never compained to GenCon about your workshop. But I'm sure as hell glad some people did.
This workshop is going to teach men how to touch women. Let me say that again, because it's the crux of why I think this is bullshit: WKS1690555 is a workshop about how men need to touch women to make women feel good. Now, will someone please explain to me what the hell this is doing at GenCon?
What I really don't understand is why they put it back. They took this offensive thing down for 'review' and then put it back up. I'm starting to wonder if they mean all the rhetoric about it being a safe convention at all.  With the kinds of issues women have at conventions, or in the gaming community, an event that says 'here's the way women want you to touch them, go ahead, they'll love it' is not something we need certain kinds of men taking. But I guess I'm over sensitive. I think the "spouse" designation for some of the events (many of which are indistinguishable from 'workshop' events) is outdated and stereotypical also.
My work is NOT about taking advantage of women! It's about helping couples learn something new.  Is it so impossible that I might have discovered a new way to touch, to reduce stress, to make a positive difference in your love life? Is it so impossible that I have created and teach and NON-SEXUAL touch that changes brain chemistry? I have hundreds of positive feedback forms from live students that loved what I taught them and how positively effected their life. I just don't understand all that hate even after I have explained my intention, my dedication and goals.

Many others have mentioned there are BDSM events, that seems worse to me than learning to touch your partner in ways that reduce stress.
 

Posted by msbliss jessicalprice

jessicalprice wrote:
mhayward1978 wrote:
msbliss wrote:I couldn't be more disappointed or heartbroken to see my events cancelled. My passion is for helping women and their partners find their way back to love more often, more easily and quicker.
By the way, the initial marketing was suggested by men to get men interested in learning more about how to connect. Connection is key to intimacy if you want it to be meaningful.

I'm going to take you at your word here, and give you the benefit of the doubt that you're trying to be helpful, and you think you have a non-sexual, connection based technique to teach people how to improve their relationships.If that's true - you really need to change your tag line under your twitter page at https://twitter.com/theblissologist @theblissologist.com - as the "b*tch to bliss to bed: Requires no diamonds, chocolate or batteries." is seriously giving the wrong impression.
It makes you sound like you're trying the same stuff as despicable PUA culture promotes - which I gather is not how you'd like to be viewed.
Women aren't a monolith, and neither are men. We're overlapping bell curves. I read through your site, and I find it stereotypical, shallow, and insulting. 
And, given that men refusing to respect women's physical boundaries at game conventions is an enduring and serious problem, hosting an event in this environment teaching that women can be controlled by touch isn't only insulting and in poor taste, it's dangerous.  
I'm relieved that your event got canceled. I would not feel safe at a convention that allowed it. 
I am sorry to see that you have gotten the wrong idea about my work. I don't teach men how to control women.  I live by a deep sense of integrity and honor.  My website is called 'beherhero' because I work to teach men tools they don't have to support their partnerships in real ways.  I teach women how to use the technique on men as well in my class and it works.  In some cases the men respond even better than the women but that is not the majority.

We both run masculine and feminine energy, I talk about that in the class.  I also teach from the book the 5 love languages to help people get to the heart of what they want and need in a relationship. All of my work is about connection and how brain chemistry has a part in that. I also always teach about consent.

It would be so much better if the people that are so hateful about my class actually came to see first and then complained if I really was smarmy.  Honestly I think you'd be surprised at how much you would have learned and how much you might have liked it if you had had the chance to actually attend. I am so sorry to see how unnecessarily upset  people are getting about a G rated, class in deeper connection.

Posted by colin1012

Seems the disconnect is on if that touching is between partners or strangers. It is one thing for two consenting adults to practice BDSM and for someone to tie up a stranger because they think they might like it. A workshop about partners engaging in some form of stress relieving touch sounds fairly puritanical to me and while it might not be an event I would sign up for someone might find it relaxing and a great way to connect while on vacation at a con. A workshop on how to touch women so they like it sounds like a really horrible idea.

On another note referring to "taking a bitch to bed" is probably a real quick way to muddle the point of relaxing touch resulting in better communication. I am not a marketing professional in any sense of the term but I would say calling half of your clientele a term that is mostly used in a derogatory fashion does little to engage them into wanting to purchase your product. 

Posted by choriqueso

Jeesh. GenCon is NOT going to tolerate ANY of the things some of you are foaming at the mouth about.

Some of you speak as if there will DEFINITIVELY be thousands of people taking part in lawless beatings, fires, sexual harassment and robbery solely because the humor of AN event is a little too dark for you or the content of AN event is a little too sexual for you.

This is a completely vanilla convention that is catering to almost 70 THOUSAND people. They are not going to allow anything that goes too far into any of your triggers. Do you not think they screen these event submissions? They put thought into these things before approving them. Yet some are gleefully attempting to shut down APPROVED events for no fair reason. If it was approved, what gives you the right to dictate my fun? The people that would go to an event that you don't like will be there whether the event is there or not... so... is it just a power thing?

It must be understood that most people will not like EVERYTHING the con has to offer and that is completely OK.

It HAS to be exhausting (or seemingly thrilling) having to always be in attack mode against every single thing you don't like or understand.

This event is for ALL of us. As in ALL inclusive even if our tastes/interests don't match up. We CAN all get along I promise! It's only going to be as hard as YOU make it, the rest of us are there to have fun.

Posted by marimaccadmin

Hi all, 

These Blissology events have been pulled, and there's really no more point in discussing these events further, so we going to consider the thread closed at this time, thank you.

Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC

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