Denver is also a SWA hub which means more non stop flights and cheaper fares.
How are the gaming conventions in Denver that are already running on location?
We'll have to agree to disagree. And with all the hotels getting rid of free parking, that's going to drive up costs in Vegas as well. I can get from Southport to the ICC in less than 15 minutes. I can't get from the Bellagio to Venetian in 15 minutes by cab. The hotels won't provide free shuttles, I've never seen that for the conventions we've been there to attend unless the /convention/ planners are paying for them. I don't see that happening. And the monorail isn't necessarily convenient either, and it's definitely not fast. And yes, depending on the location you could have a short walk. I have a short walk now - I've got a room reserved at the Homewood Suites 2 blocks from the ICC. Many people have short walks. Many other people are going to have to drive, cab, or uber - no different in Indy than in Las Vegas, except that Indy is more centrally located for more attendees. If you're in a hotel off-strip (which would be cheaper - but cheaper than the further away hotels in Indy? Unlikely.),
If you fly into Vegas, you wont need a car. So parking is not relevant.[/quote]
Unless you rent a car to get around in, as many people do because cabs every time you leave your hotel can get /expensive/. And again, the monorail doesn't go everywhere either.
If you drive...then right now you probably are flying to Indy. So its better for you.You COULD stay at the Rio. Thats your call. But there are more hotels within .6 miles of the LVCC than there are in Downtown Indy. And the monorail is $12 for an all day pass. Much better than any Indy transport.
Don't disagree there, however, walking 1/2 a mile in 100+ degree temps isn't really an option for many, so the "1/2 mile" thing is meaningless. And sometimes taking a cab that half mile can take 10-15 minutes - just like driving 5 miles in Indy. So, difference is?
Again - you're not getting hotels that close to the LVCC for a major weekend convention for $99/night. Or even $199/night. $299/night is possible, maybe. $350-400? More likely. Even in block.
You have no chance at reserving a downtown room in the block if you dont get in the first hour, likely less. Or you can pay $500 a night or more for the few rooms left. In Vegas, those rooms will be cheaper AND wont be gone. You'll be able to find one close if you want it. If you WANT to stay 5 miles away. Then go ahead. But many people DONT want to but they have little choice or reasonable options right now.
I have a room 2 blocks away for the same rate as block, booked out of block (because the hotel isn't in the block anyway). Many people get in-block rooms after the initial rush, because they get dropped or swapped or freed up in any number of ways. Last year, I had the Embassy Suites for $179/night, booked out of block. (This year, they screwed that up, but hopefully that doesn't happen again.)
Most people who attend in Vegas would NOT be able to drive. Many people who attend in Indy DO drive. So cost is definitely a factor. I can get to Indy with 2 people for less than $150 round trip (gas & tolls). That frees up lots of money for other stuff. So can 49% of the country that is within a 1-day drive of Indy.
Right now? Cheapest non-stop RT I can find for 2 from PHL-LAS is more than $900. So we're talking about an almost $800 difference in transportation costs. Then I have to consider cabs, Uber, monorail, etc. while I'm there, whereas in Indy everything is absolutely walkable. Then you have to deal with the fact that you're not getting hotel rooms for $99/night 1/2 mile from the LVCC, especially not on a weekend. See what I posted previously from CES - average of /30/ hotels was $350/night for a weekend convention. So more expensive hotel, more expensive travel, and more expensive amenities - food isn't nearly as cheap in Vegas as it is in Indy, either. And most hotels don't have refrigerators where I can throw snacks and beer and stuff that I brought with me - which now I'd have to also purchase, since packing & traveling with them isn't an option. I realize some people can't do that now - but more can than would be able to in Vegas.
These are things that have to be taken into consideration when saying that Vegas would be 'cheaper for more people', because I'm just not seeing it. Like I said, we go to Vegas and we love Vegas - but not for this con. It isn't a good fit.
So that's $800 more I have to either spend on a downtown hotel, or (more likely) in the vendor area.
Sorry - quoting got messed up in that one, and it won't let me edit to fix.
In general it seems that the issue is not that Indy doesn't provide enough, but that people want more than Indy provides. Would it be nice to have a subway system? Sure, but for $20/day I can park less than a mile from the convention center. Would it be nice to have more space in the ICC? I guess, but I have yet to run out of things to do in the space they already have. Would it be nice to have closer hotels? Yes. But you know what? Last year we stayed in a house 10 mins from the ICC. This year we'll be staying in a house a less than a mile from the ICC. Sure, it's not a connected hotel, but my whole Gen Con cost this year (housing, transportaion, & events) is around $250. The plane ticket to Vegas would be that much.
There are valid arguments on all sides of the conversation, and I look forward to seeing what Gen Con does in the future, but I don't think that moving the convention to a busy, expensive city (be it Vegas, Atlanta, Baltimore, or Chicago) would improve the experience for me.
I'd love for GenCon to move to Minneapolis, but I don't see it happening. Minneapolis.org cites the number of hotel rooms downtown at just 6800, well below Indy's total, and as a native I can tell you that a sizable number of those are going to be four or more blocks away from the Convention Center.
If GenCon decides to leave Indy, I don't envy the person who has to research where they're going to go.
Still looking for the 2021 Gencon dates, but I haven't seen them....................
Glad to hear we'll have Indy until AT LEAST 2021! I love the city and think it should remain there forever!!
I don't think we'd want to have to deal with all the hotel and parking issues we had in Milwaukee again! :)
Just a little data. In terms of exhibit hall space, Indy comes in at number 31 with 654,000 sq ft. Vegas is number 3 with 2,000,000 sq ft. Orlando is number 2 with 2,100,000 sq ft exhibit space and 7,000,000 sq ft total. If we add the field at Lucas Stadium, that only adds about 50,000 sq ft. Just saying.
Indy still has plenty of room to grow and I think there is more space available at Lucas Oil than you think.
Not sure where you are getting your numbers on Lucas Oil, but they are not correct, it can accommodate up to another 183,000 square feet of exhibit space. http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/exhibitors/Default.aspx
That said, I fervently hope that the field could be used. Could you imagine that as a True Dungeon field? Or maybe start having some of the most epic indoor LARPs ever? :D
The Las Vegas Convention Center (LVCC), located adjacent to the Las Vegas Strip, encompasses approximately 3.2 million square feet with exhibit space of 2 million square feet and meeting space of nearly 250,000 square feet. The facility is one of the busiest centers in the world - centrally located within three miles of over 100,000 guest rooms. http://www.lvcva.com/who-we-are/our-facilities/las-vegas-convention-center/
http://www.lvcva.com/who-we-are/our-facilities/las-vegas-convention-center/
My post said Lucas stadium could add 50,000 sq ft if you add the field. Football field that is. And the amount of space is very relevant if Gencon keeps growing. The exhibit hall is packed every year with people. It could use a lot more space with wider aisles where you could get around without crawling over people.
Oh, and the largest convention last year at the Vegas convention center had an estimated 160,000 participants. They could almost hold Spiel Essen.
The mad rush can be injurious to health and safety.
It's already confirmed that the field will be in use by Gen Con this year by boardgaming (not sure if anything else).
All board gaming? Or for additional space?
Nice. I hadn't heard that. The Downtown Marriott won't have any gaming space available due to renovations so I'm sure they had to do some significant shuffling to figure out where all those people were going to go.