Official Gen Con specific only Coronavirus thread
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Posted by jimdigris

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Posted by buffythecatslayer

The odds of a healthy person under the age of 50 dying from this is remarkably low. 

What makes you think that everyone that attends Gen Con is healthy?  I would suspect that the gaming population might have a higher number of people (myself included) with conditions that could increase their chances of catching COVID, and having more complications if they do get the disease.  So, just because the rate for under 50's is "good", doesn't meant that it's good for those of us at Gen Con.

Posted by mikeboozer

Done with the numbers game. Take your number and predictions to your social media channel. They're not Gen Con specific enough as you are using national data.

We're not going to get in a discussion/slash argument about whose right or wrong and what numbers to use.

Mike

Posted by forar fatherofone

fatherofone wrote:Indiana has been opening up since last Monday.  It opened up more this week and we should and will continue to monitor it.   Having said that, it has now been a week and a half and the numbers are actually going down.  I hope we can agree that if we open up more and the numbers go down or even remain the same that is great news.   Currently 16% of those that test positive make up 90% of the mortality rate.  Again anyone who dies is horrible, you and I agree on that.  This demographic is people over 60 and we don't know how many have pre-existing conditions.   So again, I can only use the data that I have on hand, and can't project into the future, but the data after being open for a week and a half has trended better.   
The odds of a healthy person under the age of 50 dying from this is remarkably low.    
I keep saying that I only report the numbers and they are what they are.  If we see a massive uptick like some are predicting, then we should by all means pivot on this.  Also the odds of needing hospitalization for a healthy person under 50 appears to be very low.   If that changes, which I doubt it will because we have a ton of data now, then again we should pivot.   
Lastly, I want to say that I don't fault anyone who is not comfortable going to anything right now.  I just also think the opposite should be true.  People shouldn't fault someone who is still going.  Especially if they are under 50, and healthy.  

Infections and deaths are what are referred to as 'lagging indicators'. Opening up a week ago and not seeing results isn't indicative of safety necessarily, especially if it takes a week or two for the impact to really be felt. It's entirely possible that the impact of opening up (and continuing to open more) won't be realized for another week or two. Hell, it could be June or later before we really understand how the earlier re-opening levels impacted things, let alone the other steps. That's why many states are using a 2-3+ week period between relaxed lockdowns; the numbers you get today aren't indicative of results from yesterday. They're indicative of the situation possibly as far back as late April.

Which is part of the problem. Even if things look amazing in early July, by the time the convention actually happens things could have been going completely sideways for weeks, and it may finally be noticed in the numbers right before showtime.

Which brings me to deaths. Yes, it is well known that this seems to impact the elderly at a much higher rate than younger people, but it's not without risk. Even 3% is shockingly high. In the event it were to be spread around a convention (Gencon or otherwise), I see that problem as fourfold;

 - 1: some attendees are indeed within that risk range. Is Gencon even legally able to set a restriction on that? I imagine that would fall under discrimination laws, so even if it's suggested strongly, if the con happens, I don't think they can demand ID and turn away anyone over a certain age. 

 - ii: were younger people to be infected, they may indeed have a much better chance of surviving. But that won't necessarily save the others they come into contact with. Ideally they wouldn't be going home to hug grandma and grandpa right off the plane, but if a con became a substantial transmission vector, it'd be yet another concern.

 - C: Simply getting it but surviving may still require medical attention, which puts further strain on the local medical system (even if it's after the convention is over, hundreds or thousands of new cases springing up across the US or globe isn't going to help things). With fewer resources to go around, some deaths that should have been preventable aren't anymore. If there are 20 ICU beds and 50 patients that need ICU treatment, some of those who could or would have been saved might not be able to get the care that should have saved their life.

 - 4: we continue to learn more and more about the disease and its effects on the body. It is being reported that while the manner of infection is through the respiratory system, some of the damage done appears to be to the circulatory system. Manifesting as clotting within the body and possibly leading to heart attacks and strokes in people far younger than one would normally assume for such an event. We simply don't know the outcome here. It may not simply be '1-3% die and everyone else either avoids it or gets immunity'. If it leaves lasting damage on the respiratory and/or circulatory system, that could lead to further health problems and a shortened lifespan for survivors. I don't offer this as an absolute, but it is being studied and it's too early to say one way or another.

Sure, it might not kill many people under 50. But we're still figuring out if it might just make it that much less likely for those survivors to see 50 themselves, even if just due to being weakened against other conditions they incur (related or not as they are to COVID itself).

There are a lot of factors to consider with an easily transmittable virus like this. That you or I may well survive it without any long term effects may be of little help or comfort to someone else we crossed paths with.

This seems to a well sourced article dealing with case studies done on situations where the disease was contracted by others due to exposure. Based on that read, being in close proximity to someone who is contagious (even if currently asymptomatic) could carry a risk. Being outdoors (or in a large well ventilated space) may reduce that some, but simply being around a breathing carrier (let alone talking to them or around one who is shouting, even with basic protective masks) can carry risk.

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?fbclid=IwAR13JtIUL5OvDmjVLBKGr6BJJU13tVHbZxof5iNZi7hfOmLER714KyMsizc

Posted by gib_rebeg mikeboozer

mikeboozer wrote:
Done with the numbers game. Take your number and predictions to your social media channel. They're not Gen Con specific enough as you are using national data.
We're not going to get in a discussion/slash argument about whose right or wrong and what numbers to use.
Mike

Well Mike, least this year we're not arguing over which city Gencon should move to and why, as we have for the last 4 years.

Or how unfair the housing system is and how we need to fix it.

Posted by fatherofone wentwj

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Posted by buffythecatslayer forar

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Posted by raidkillsbugsded gib_rebeg

gib_rebeg wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
Done with the numbers game. Take your number and predictions to your social media channel. They're not Gen Con specific enough as you are using national data.
We're not going to get in a discussion/slash argument about whose right or wrong and what numbers to use.
Mike

Well Mike, least this year we're not arguing over which city Gencon should move to and why, as we have for the last 4 years.Or how unfair the housing system is and how we need to fix it.

If they had moved Gen Con to a giant, open field in Iowa like I suggested a few years back, social distancing wouldn't be all that hard.  

The housing system is unfair because there STILL aren't enough downtown rooms available.  They need to fix it by sticking disaster relief tents in White River State Park because there would be nothing that could possibly be awkward about that or go wrong with that.  

Posted by forar buffythecatslayer

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Posted by maijstral2 fatherofone

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Posted by michellebudd

Looking at the numbers as they are today isn't all that useful.  Given the delay between exposure and test results, what we're seeing today is the result of things at the peak of the Indiana lockdown.  Over the next couple of weeks we'll start seeing the impact that reopening has had.  And even then our trend is increasing, not decreasing (Indiana's results trickle in slowly.  We don't see the day's actual numbers until a day or two later.)

Posted by lehane cman811

cman811 wrote:
cmegus wrote:
raidkillsbugsded wrote:
A lot of comments on the gaming aspect refer to demo-ing, I’m more curious as to the event type games that aren’t commercial/“selling you on wanting to buy new stuff” in nature.  How would RPG gaming events be handled?  Miniatures games? Board Games?  Somehow I don’t see a Catan tournament as a feasible thing...or a Magic the Gathering tourney...is spacing gamers 6 feet in something like that practical or even possible?  How many tables would be allowable in rooms that normally hold dozens or hundreds?  Would it make the cost of using those spaces justifiable?  I’m not saying it can’t be done, but what would the events look like if they had to meet ICC (or other event space) guidelines?
You are assuming - incorrectly I would say - that the usual 60-70k + people would be there. I would assume close to maybe 20 or 25k and that would be at the high end and that would allow for lots of ingenious spacing. And reminder that 6 feet is without a mask or face covering directive. It calms down a bit with masks...
G
I don't think you can accurately assume any attendance number this year.  If it happens it'll be a total crapshoot.  But, based on anecdotal evidence of people I know who go to gencon every year, all of them are still on board with going.  
Our group is at 8 of the original ten still waiting for a "go or no go" decision to be made by the Governor or Mayor. But we haven't had any of the weekly game nights in awhile so some may have changed their minds since then and not informed me cause they are in our 2nd hotel room that isn't in my name. 

When we last meet the census was we didn't expect know anything solid about Gencon until just before July 4th Holiday weekend or until just after said Holiday weekend. So we settled in to wait it out. 

Posted by wentwj fatherofone

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Posted by mikeboozer

So, some of you did not listen and your privileges here are suspended. This is a long thread and it has been made clear on numerous occasions what will and will not be tolerated.
Feel free to email [email protected] to discuss the terms of reinstatement.

Mike

Posted by mjlaba48

Thanks Mike....so tired of all the doom and gloom chatter. Everyone be patient to see what Gencon decides 
or plans to implement changes that allows the con to take place. They are most likely spending a lot of time and energy to what needs to be done to have a safe convention if possible.

Posted by cmegus mjlaba48

mjlaba48 wrote:
Thanks Mike....so tired of all the doom and gloom chatter. Everyone be patient to see what Gencon decides 
or plans to implement changes that allows the con to take place. They are most likely spending a lot of time and energy to what needs to be done to have a safe convention if possible.

Not saying they are not by any means —- but it would be nice to get an update every couple weeks or so. Particularly worried about the unnerving quiet on the Events more than anything...

All I’m saying is we would not be on these forums if we weren’t looking for any glimmer of hope.

G

Posted by lore seeker cmegus

cmegus wrote:
mjlaba48 wrote:
Thanks Mike....so tired of all the doom and gloom chatter. Everyone be patient to see what Gencon decides 
or plans to implement changes that allows the con to take place. They are most likely spending a lot of time and energy to what needs to be done to have a safe convention if possible.
Not saying they are not by any means —- but it would be nice to get an update every couple weeks or so. Particularly worried about the unnerving quiet on the Events more than anything...
All I’m saying is we would not be on these forums if we weren’t looking for any glimmer of hope.
G

Agreed. Some kind of weekly update (even if it's just to say "We're still ironing things out") would be helpful.

Posted by mjlaba48

Posted by mjlaba48

Yep, maybe a weekly update would be nice, but it may mean procedures have not been decided on yet
 I would think.

Posted by michellebudd

Given the amount of planning and financial investment that comes with a trip to GenCon, and given that much of it requires spending in advance that may or may not be refundable, it's understandable that people are a little anxious and desperate for information.

Everyone involved needs to both give and receive respect and understanding. 

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