Satine Phoenix & Jamison Stone
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Posted by lehane kevinrg

kevinrg wrote:
More general comments.  Not directed at any one person.   I never get the eye rolling of where people spend their money within a particular hobby by people within the hobby.  "Spend $100 on an event at Gencon? Pfft.. Hey, check this out, I spent $2000 at the auction hall for this half eaten Gary Gygax twinkie that he signed".       
Definitely not unique to gaming, I do a bunch of different hobbies and see this across the board.   The psychology of it all is just bizarre to me.   I guess people just have this necessity to believe their choices are superior to someone else.  
Having said that, I didn't realize that there were some events that were that much at Gencon.    If you can run an event and get that much for it, good for you.
Shadowrun increased their Missions events from $8 (2019) to $20 (2022). I decided to pass on $20 event price this year and my entire group did as well. 

Just for interest's sake I did an accounting on tickets sold a week or so after events went down and the Shadowrun room wasn't close to selling out like I was used to it being. Then I calculated the money at $20 for partial tickets sales they have done and it was way ahead of a potential sellout at $8 an event. Looks like they are going to come out ahead and the new price is likely here to stay. I am wondering if more events are going to start going that way for future Gencons.

I also wouldn't say I feel my decisions are superior to someone else's when I say I don't get doing something. It is just the cost/benefit analysis doesn't add up for me but someone else maybe values something more than I do. 

On my example of not getting the food trucks is in 2018 I got a 3 taco and drink dinner from a truck. Had no where to sit, no refills on the drink, no AC. The next day I ate at a restaurant for lunch, got 3 tacos and a drink. Was seated when I arrived at a table with AC and got refills on the drink. The price was basically the same, less than $0.50 difference (the tip for the waitress was more than I dropped in the Truck's tip jar though). 

The Cost/Benefit analysis bottomed out on the food trucks as I considered this. But this is just me. The Lines at the food trucks speak for why they are a thing. I (personally) simply don't consider them an option anymore. 

Posted by kevinrg

Not so much talking about "Not my thing, not interested" or cost benefit analysis type things, everyone does that.   I'm talking about downright hate/disdain for activities within a hobby for no logical reason (I have an unnatural dislike for any board game with anamorphic characters, but we won't discuss that right now..)

I would say seems many people like that have a bit of a gatekeeper mentality.  "I'm enjoying the hobby the right way, buying and doing all the right things"

Although everything in this hobby is peaches and cream compared to my daughter's K-Pop interests.  Now that is an interesting group...

 

Posted by dwe113

ok so this thread kind of got away from the original purpose

Posted by mikeboozer dwe113

dwe113 wrote:
ok so this thread kind of got away from the original purpose

It has indeed. Stay on target people.

Mike

Posted by random_axcess

A bit back on track; Satine did issue what she called an apology on instragram a few days ago and it looks like they (Satine & Jamison) will be following the playbook they posted on Discord (where Jamison takes the fall, Satine will be a victim, and they salvage her "brand"). The "apology" consisted of her stating a persons name, saying "I am sorry for hurting you" or "I am sorry you feel hurt" then dissecting everything they said and refuting it point-by-point how they are incorrect and Satine is the true victim in all of this.

Below is an exert from her posted apology...
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVete4IUcAYGynO?format=png&name=900x900[/img]

Given how quickly GenCon has made snap banning decisions of people in the past (in person & online), I am inclined to believe that they are waiting to gauge outrage and if it is safe to willingly play along with the narrative Satine and Jamison have made up. 

I hope I am wrong but as Ray Jenkins put it best; "Silence aids the aggressor".

Posted by sam7001 random_axcess

random_axcess wrote:
I hope I am wrong but as Ray Jenkins put it best; "Silence aids the aggressor".

I agree with this. It will put Gencon in a bad light, from my point of view, if either of these two are further enabled by being allowed to host or participate in events.

Posted by breevee

I didn't think her "apology" could possibly be worse than what I imagined it would be and then I watched her gaslight and victim-blame the people she and Jamison Stone had already hurt, particularly the first person to come forward. 

To reiterate the valid point above: "Silence aids the aggressor"

Posted by dalthius breevee

breevee wrote:
I didn't think her "apology" could possibly be worse than what I imagined it would be and then I watched her gaslight and victim-blame the people she and Jamison Stone had already hurt, particularly the first person to come forward. 
To reiterate the valid point above: "Silence aids the aggressor"
100% agree; she started off the apology seeming with some level of sincerity, but by the end she was the victim. I had hopes that she would be better than her partner, as I believe Jamison is just a terrible human being. After that apology, I realize they are both not the sort of people that should ever represent our hobby. But you know what, there are still going to be the superfans out there that will insist they are innocent and it was all a mistake, even though evidence to the contrary is glaringly obvious. I expect they will continue to eke out a career in the industry as I do believe they each have some level of talent, but their shininess has certainly been dulled. I'll not be contributing a dime in any way to either of them.

Posted by qwaserity dalthius

dalthius wrote:
=inheritthere are still going to be the superfans out there that will insist they are innocent and it was all a mistake
A Prayer:

I wish people were as smart as they think they are.
I wish people were as kind as their dogs think they are.
I wish people were as innocent as their mothers think they are.

Posted by dalthius qwaserity

qwaserity wrote:
dalthius wrote:
=inheritthere are still going to be the superfans out there that will insist they are innocent and it was all a mistake
A Prayer:I wish people were as smart as they think they are.
I wish people were as kind as their dogs think they are.
I wish people were as innocent as their mothers think they are.
Seconded.

Posted by adcjones

GenCon will do their thorough investigation and likely see the truth of it, I'm certain.  

Posted by brumcg

All of Jamison's events have been deleted.  Satine's are still there.

Posted by random_axcess brumcg

brumcg wrote:
All of Jamison's events have been deleted.  Satine's are still there.

Despite the avalanche of allegations  against both of them and her apology attack on their victims... I do not want to see GenCon "compromise" and follow Satines/Jamison's PR playbook.

There are very clear victims and aggressors, I would really hate to see GenCon side with Satine because of who she is in the community.

Posted by quarex

I am actually torn on whether she by herself rises to the level of a banning by Gen-Con's policies.  Aside: I absolutely think anyone this aggressively awful has no business claiming to be a representation of my beloved hobby, just saying I bet you could find people who have done tangibly worse things who have not been banned.

Actually, looking into it, the people I was thinking of (the monster who claims to run TSR now, the guy who attacked a security guard a couple of years ago) have actually both been banned, so yeah it will be interesting to see what happens with her.  I am sure behind the scenes she is doing everything in her power to convince whoever makes these decisions that she has learned her lesson

Posted by jcirillo1971 random_axcess

random_axcess wrote:
brumcg wrote:
All of Jamison's events have been deleted.  Satine's are still there.

Despite the avalanche of allegations  against both of them and her apology attack on their victims... I do not want to see GenCon "compromise" and follow Satines/Jamison's PR playbook.There are very clear victims and aggressors, I would really hate to see GenCon side with Satine because of who she is in the community.

This!  100%!  Some on my twitter feed have been complaining that GenCon is deleting tweets requesting they remove Satine's slate of events.  That is not very cool and this should not be swept under the rug.

Posted by brumcg random_axcess

random_axcess wrote:
=inheritI do not want to see GenCon "compromise" and follow Satines/Jamison's PR playbook.

Keep in mind, we don't know who requested the deletion of Jamison's events.  This could be part of the "it's all Jamison's fault" playbook.

Posted by mikeboozer jcirillo1971

jcirillo1971 wrote:
random_axcess wrote:
brumcg wrote:
All of Jamison's events have been deleted.  Satine's are still there.

Despite the avalanche of allegations  against both of them and her apology attack on their victims... I do not want to see GenCon "compromise" and follow Satines/Jamison's PR playbook.There are very clear victims and aggressors, I would really hate to see GenCon side with Satine because of who she is in the community.

This!  100%!  Some on my twitter feed have been complaining that GenCon is deleting tweets requesting they remove Satine's slate of events.  That is not very cool and this should not be swept under the rug.

We don't delete tweets as long as they are following the rules and code of conduct and don't turn into harassing behavior as well.

If things get out of control in these areas on our channels as they have then we will take the appropriate steps.

As evidenced here. This channel is still open, but I won't hesitate to delete posts that are inappropriate to our code of conduct. So far, so good.

Mike

Posted by kertdawg

Mike, 

For our reference, where is the Code of Conduct for the forums? 

Thanks. 

Posted by mikeboozer kertdawg

kertdawg wrote:
Mike, 
For our reference, where is the Code of Conduct for the forums? 
Thanks. 

The same as Gen Cons code of conduct regarding the show.

https://www.gencon.com/attend/policies

Plus the usual obvious ones. Stay on topic, don't keep repeating the same information to make your point.

Mike

Posted by kertdawg

I read, "Harassing or offensive behavior will not be tolerated." Got it.

Let me simply state that the subject's fame originally came from another source. Search IMDB or Google, and you will find the original source of notability. This certainty affects name recognition at least. 

To keep it on point: Ability at a game table (of which I make no representation) may not play into the equation as much as other factors (of which I make no representation) when it comes to cancelability or attraction value of an event. 

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