Regarding the coronavirus survey, policies need to have no exceptions or they are useless.
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Posted by chaoticneutral262 fethbone

fethbone wrote:Whatever people think regarding a vaccination requirement, I do not believe GenCon has the resources to implement such a policy beyond a questionnaire or waiver.

That is my view as well.  Obviously GC needs to take some common sense safety steps (e.g. hand sanitizer) but a liability waiver shifts responsibility to the attendee.  We all know there are risks and vaccines will be available to all well in advance of the convention.  If you still aren't comfortable with that, attend the on-line Gen Con instead.

Posted by squirecam chaoticneutral262

chaoticneutral262 wrote:
fethbone wrote:Whatever people think regarding a vaccination requirement, I do not believe GenCon has the resources to implement such a policy beyond a questionnaire or waiver.

That is my view as well.  Obviously GC needs to take some common sense safety steps (e.g. hand sanitizer) but a liability waiver shifts responsibility to the attendee.  We all know there are risks and vaccines will be available to all well in advance of the convention.  If you still aren't comfortable with that, attend the on-line Gen Con instead.
You do not need a liability waiver as IN has already passed a law that forbids a lawsuit for catching Covid at Gencon.

A liability waiver would do nothing as far as compliance with the ICC policies however. That is a matter of contract and as they have said several times, they will follow the ICC requirements. 

Posted by xanathon

With the arguing here and on the Facebook Fans of Gen Con group really should be concerning to everyone that attends Gen Con.  If I were Gen Con I would just postpone the convention until 2022 rather than try to run a lesser than normal convention.

The fact that there are people that are only concerned with what they perceive as their rights getting infringed upon, such things as being vaccinated, wearing a mask, and many others, it seems to me that it would be more trouble than what it is worth for Gen Con to happen this year.  The staff would have to enforce a lot more rules and I question if they could get the manpower necessary to enforce all of the various rules.

Its bad enough having to deal with people that have no concept of basic hygiene each year.  Think of the headaches this year could cause.  

Posted by squirecam xanathon

xanathon wrote:
With the arguing here and on the Facebook Fans of Gen Con group really should be concerning to everyone that attends Gen Con.  If I were Gen Con I would just postpone the convention until 2022 rather than try to run a lesser than normal convention.
The fact that there are people that are only concerned with what they perceive as their rights getting infringed upon, such things as being vaccinated, wearing a mask, and many others, it seems to me that it would be more trouble than what it is worth for Gen Con to happen this year.  The staff would have to enforce a lot more rules and I question if they could get the manpower necessary to enforce all of the various rules.
Its bad enough having to deal with people that have no concept of basic hygiene each year.  Think of the headaches this year could cause.  
Why should Gencon have to cancel for a second year? Perhaps they financially need this convention to go on. 

They are going to decide under what rules the convention happens. Along with the state and the ICC.

If people dont want to follow those rules then they shouldn't attend. 

But Gencon needs money to survive and I dont see how cancelling a second convention helps them survive. 

Posted by xanathon squirecam

squirecam wrote:
xanathon wrote:
With the arguing here and on the Facebook Fans of Gen Con group really should be concerning to everyone that attends Gen Con.  If I were Gen Con I would just postpone the convention until 2022 rather than try to run a lesser than normal convention.
The fact that there are people that are only concerned with what they perceive as their rights getting infringed upon, such things as being vaccinated, wearing a mask, and many others, it seems to me that it would be more trouble than what it is worth for Gen Con to happen this year.  The staff would have to enforce a lot more rules and I question if they could get the manpower necessary to enforce all of the various rules.
Its bad enough having to deal with people that have no concept of basic hygiene each year.  Think of the headaches this year could cause.  
Why should Gencon have to cancel for a second year? Perhaps they financially need this convention to go on. They are going to decide under what rules the convention happens. Along with the state and the ICC.
If people dont want to follow those rules then they shouldn't attend. 
But Gencon needs money to survive and I dont see how cancelling a second convention helps them survive.

Because at this point it seems to me that too many people won’t follow any of the rules that Gen Con would establish to have a safe convention. 

Instead of looking at the greater good there are too many people only thinking about themselves and how wearing a mask would affect them. 

Too many people are complaining g at how it’s unfair to expect only people who have been vaccinated to attend. 

it just seems to me it would be more trouble than it’s worth for there to be a Gen Con this year because of people that I have described. 

Posted by mjlaba48

It does not need to cancel for a 2nd year.  Everyone just take proper precautions and follow their rules.  Stop with all this cancel talk.  Just be adults about it. 

Posted by xanathon mjlaba48

mjlaba48 wrote:
It does not need to cancel for a 2nd year.  Everyone just take proper precautions and follow their rules.  Stop with all this cancel talk.  Just be adults about it. 
If everyone was capable of being an adult I would agree with you. Just go to the Fans of Gen Con Facebook group. You will see a complete lack of people being an adult there. 

Posted by austicke xanathon

xanathon wrote:
Just go to the Fans of Gen Con Facebook group. You will see a complete lack of people being an adult there. 

Our age requirement is 16. You're not allowed to be over it.

_____________________________________
Alec Usticke, Fans of Gen Con Facebook Group
 

Posted by elvinlord

Depending on how things work out there no guarantee running a con would actually turn a profit for gencon.   I am sure they are doing that very unpleasant math.  It's pretty safe to say this year in person is going to be a very different beast then most.  Maybe they can scale costs down to match reduced attendance both by the public and vendors, maybe they cant and it becomes a unpleasant game of which option loses us the least money.     

The longer it takes to get a firm commitment, the more vendors and gms you will likely lose.  Most companies aren't going to be willing to tie up resources on maybe.  The longer it takes for a firm commitment, the more general attendees you lose due to vacation time and money being allotted elsewhere.  No doubt there is a hardcore group who would attend if it was announced one day prior with airborne Ebola running rampant in indy.  If the hardcores are enough who knows, only Gencon knows.

Posted by xanathon austicke

[This post has been removed]

Posted by kar8a elvinlord

elvinlord wrote:
Depending on how things work out there no guarantee running a con would actually turn a profit for gencon.   I am sure they are doing that very unpleasant math.  It's pretty safe to say this year in person is going to be a very different beast then most.  Maybe they can scale costs down to match reduced attendance both by the public and vendors, maybe they cant and it becomes a unpleasant game of which option loses us the least money.     
The longer it takes to get a firm commitment, the more vendors and gms you will likely lose.  Most companies aren't going to be willing to tie up resources on maybe.  The longer it takes for a firm commitment, the more general attendees you lose due to vacation time and money being allotted elsewhere.  No doubt there is a hardcore group who would attend if it was announced one day prior with airborne Ebola running rampant in indy.  If the hardcores are enough who knows, only Gencon knows.

That's why I think the decision has to come by Easter (pretty much Apr 1-4) or sooner.  I know we'll be looking at a summer gamecon in Texas if Gencon goes virtual or just stays in limbo.  

By summer, it will be 15 months of sticking at home, so the kids and I are looking to go somewhere new, and my spouse is looking to game with people, not pixels.  So, I'm gonna make that happen if it's at all possible.  Right now, I have my Southwest tickets and hotel room for Indy...but Southwest is letting me change flights for free up til the flight and the hotel has no deposit, so I can still change on a dime...but I also want certainty that I'm getting my 2 goals.  Right now, I can get that certainty in TX, but I'm holding out for my spouse's bucket list Con.  But, at some point, (in a terrible analogy) he'll take "2nd place" rather than not getting to race at all.  A bird in the hand and all that:).  

I know, thanks to the stimulus funds coming, there's gonna be a lot of people looking to spend pent up funds in the next few weeks for their summer plans.  They can go to Gencon badges and plans, or elsewhere. I'd like them to go to Gencon, b/c I kinda wanna see a new state (and I've only ever driven through Indiana)...but then again, it's been almost 15 years since I've seen Texas:)...

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Posted by mikeboozer

xanathon, I deleted your last post. You are off topic and we are not going to get into a discussion on here concerning any other boards.

Mike

Posted by ryric

I don't think the fact that some people are going to refuse to get the vaccine is something that can really be part of any event's decision making process. Those people will always exist. Since there will be widespread access to the vaccine well before August, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect that a much greater percentage of Americans will be vaccinated in 2022 vs. 2021. Either people will get it soon or not ever. Widespread viral diseases don't ever just "go away" unless you reach enough vaccination proportion to create real herd immunity. So either we somehow convince enough people to get vaccinated so that covid goes the way of smallpox and polio, or covid will be a permanent part of future society. If we're going to cancel Gen Con this year because of anti-vaxxers, then we might as well cancel for all future years as well because those future years won't be any different.

(I will confess to motivated reasoning here...I really really want Gen Con to happen. It's one of the emotional centerpoints of my year and the online version didn't really fulfill me in any way like the actual event. Last year's cancellation was announced right in the middle of what was supposed to be another trip for me that got cancelled and left me in a very unhappy place. Gen Con attendance is important to my healthy mental wellbeing. It's four days each year where I get to be my true self and relax my guard.)

Posted by elvinlord ryric

ryric wrote:
I don't think the fact that some people are going to refuse to get the vaccine is something that can really be part of any event's decision making process. Those people will always exist. Since there will be widespread access to the vaccine well before August, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect that a much greater percentage of Americans will be vaccinated in 2022 vs. 2021. Either people will get it soon or not ever. Widespread viral diseases don't ever just "go away" unless you reach enough vaccination proportion to create real herd immunity. So either we somehow convince enough people to get vaccinated so that covid goes the way of smallpox and polio, or covid will be a permanent part of future society. If we're going to cancel Gen Con this year because of anti-vaxxers, then we might as well cancel for all future years as well because those future years won't be any different.
(I will confess to motivated reasoning here...I really really want Gen Con to happen. It's one of the emotional centerpoints of my year and the online version didn't really fulfill me in any way like the actual event. Last year's cancellation was announced right in the middle of what was supposed to be another trip for me that got cancelled and left me in a very unhappy place. Gen Con attendance is important to my healthy mental wellbeing. It's four days each year where I get to be my true self and relax my guard.)
 I get that, I too only let my geek flag fly in public when I am at the con.  I worry in person is going to feel odd and not be worth the time and risk.  I have already made plans for a major camping trip during gencon.  95% sure I am not attending, possible in person gencon is my back up back plan. 

Posted by squirecam ryric

ryric wrote:
I don't think the fact that some people are going to refuse to get the vaccine is something that can really be part of any event's decision making process. Those people will always exist. Since there will be widespread access to the vaccine well before August, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect that a much greater percentage of Americans will be vaccinated in 2022 vs. 2021. Either people will get it soon or not ever. Widespread viral diseases don't ever just "go away" unless you reach enough vaccination proportion to create real herd immunity. So either we somehow convince enough people to get vaccinated so that covid goes the way of smallpox and polio, or covid will be a permanent part of future society. If we're going to cancel Gen Con this year because of anti-vaxxers, then we might as well cancel for all future years as well because those future years won't be any different.
(I will confess to motivated reasoning here...I really really want Gen Con to happen. It's one of the emotional centerpoints of my year and the online version didn't really fulfill me in any way like the actual event. Last year's cancellation was announced right in the middle of what was supposed to be another trip for me that got cancelled and left me in a very unhappy place. Gen Con attendance is important to my healthy mental wellbeing. It's four days each year where I get to be my true self and relax my guard.)
I think everyone participating in this discussion wants Gencon to go on this year and be profitable for them.

Posted by jillt

Does GenCon have a store anymore since those OffWorld Design people went into retirement?  I could always throw in my piddly support for some t-shirts (smiley), especially if they have some general ones that don't have the year that I can wear going forward.

Posted by kevinrg

The more days that go by, in my mind, the odds drop of a live Gencon going on (at least on the designated date)

They probably know the number of people that won't attend whatever policy is in place.  Even if you are the most pro-vaccine person in the world or the most anti-vaccine person in the world, for a business, going 'We are going to take X hit no matter what we do' isn't a great financial position to be into (unless the percents are like 95/5 either way, but I'm guessing more 60/40.

On the pro-vaccine side, there are still no guarantees the the general population will have it by the time Gencon rolls around (lots of 'we think/hope/expected', but that sure isn't in stone), how to logistically manage things like that, staffing and on top of that, having absolutely no guarantees at this time what you can even have from a capacity standpoint.   At some point, attendence would generate a loss.

This just feels like last year where we kind of knew it was going to be cancelled, but they were negotiating that contract so they could officially kick the can down the road and cancel.  My guess is the same thing might be going on here or just trying to shift the date.

Hope I'm very wrong, but the calendar is not their friend right now.

Posted by brooks kevinrg

kevinrg wrote:
The more days that go by, in my mind, the odds drop of a live Gencon going on (at least on the designated date)
They probably know the number of people that won't attend whatever policy is in place.  Even if you are the most pro-vaccine person in the world or the most anti-vaccine person in the world, for a business, going 'We are going to take X hit no matter what we do' isn't a great financial position to be into (unless the percents are like 95/5 either way, but I'm guessing more 60/40.
On the pro-vaccine side, there are still no guarantees the the general population will have it by the time Gencon rolls around (lots of 'we think/hope/expected', but that sure isn't in stone), how to logistically manage things like that, staffing and on top of that, having absolutely no guarantees at this time what you can even have from a capacity standpoint.   At some point, attendence would generate a loss.
This just feels like last year where we kind of knew it was going to be cancelled, but they were negotiating that contract so they could officially kick the can down the road and cancel.  My guess is the same thing might be going on here or just trying to shift the date.
Hope I'm very wrong, but the calendar is not their friend right now.

I believe there's some cause for optimism. Here in neighboring Ohio they are anticipating opening vaccinations up to anyone over 40 very soon and Governor DeWine projects removing all safety restrictions in around 7 weeks if the current trends continue. 

DeWine visits Marysville vaccination site, says Ohioans 40+ to be eligible soon | 10tv.com
 

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Posted by father bloodlust brooks

brooks wrote:
kevinrg wrote:
The more days that go by, in my mind, the odds drop of a live Gencon going on (at least on the designated date)
They probably know the number of people that won't attend whatever policy is in place.  Even if you are the most pro-vaccine person in the world or the most anti-vaccine person in the world, for a business, going 'We are going to take X hit no matter what we do' isn't a great financial position to be into (unless the percents are like 95/5 either way, but I'm guessing more 60/40.
On the pro-vaccine side, there are still no guarantees the the general population will have it by the time Gencon rolls around (lots of 'we think/hope/expected', but that sure isn't in stone), how to logistically manage things like that, staffing and on top of that, having absolutely no guarantees at this time what you can even have from a capacity standpoint.   At some point, attendence would generate a loss.
This just feels like last year where we kind of knew it was going to be cancelled, but they were negotiating that contract so they could officially kick the can down the road and cancel.  My guess is the same thing might be going on here or just trying to shift the date.
Hope I'm very wrong, but the calendar is not their friend right now.

I believe there's some cause for optimism. Here in neighboring Ohio they are anticipating opening vaccinations up to anyone over 40 very soon and Governor DeWine projects removing all safety restrictions in around 7 weeks if the current trends continue. DeWine visits Marysville vaccination site, says Ohioans 40+ to be eligible soon | 10tv.com
 

Something similar will be happening soon in Michigan with the vaccinations, with everyone 18 and up being eligible as of April 5.

And remember, President Biden directed all states to make every adult eligible by May 1.

Posted by fiddlemaster

Just reading through this massive thread shows me that I absolutely do not want to go to GenCon because of the back and forth debating over masks and whether we'll be safe and if we should all be forced to have a vaccine before entering.

There are still too many people in America who aren't on the same page with being safe.  That makes me feel I would be absolutely unsafe if I attended GenCon.  Not because I am being careless, but because of the numerous people who still aren't taking the virus seriously and not caring about others or themselves.

What's annoying is now I am at the mercy of GenCon Corp to allow me to get a refund from my 2020 badge that carried over.  It will suck to me if the Con is held anyway regardless of safety or not, and I was forced to just swallow the $120~ badge.

Would be nice if I just got credit for GenCon and I could apply it to 2022's badge.

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