Regarding the coronavirus survey, policies need to have no exceptions or they are useless.
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Posted by jimdigris

That's what I see as being the deal breaker.  Someone is going to disregard the rules, and when asked to follow them will become belligerent. That could end up as a lawsuit.

Posted by jillt

I am mask compliant, and have attended GenCon twice in the past.  However, the sad thing is that all someone would have to do is start sipping some water as someone approaches them about wearing a mask, and say they're drinking/eating, and there isn't anything that GenCon can do about it :(

I have heard of this on planes, and I haven't been to a restaurant since 3/14/2020 (not that it's some contest on how long I can hold out; it's just not something I feel comfortable with and I'm in phase 3 of vaccinations), but from what I hear is that people come in, order, take their masks off, and on restaurants or on planes they just have water or a drink/snack nearby to skirt around having to wear a mask.  Even walking in the convention hall, all someone would have to do is have a bottled water nearby, not to give anyone ideas; this is being anecdotally heard by me from various people who have started venturing out.

I think GenCon is in a real hard place this year, but I wish them well, and I wish the attendees well.  I'll be attending the digital one each year whereas in the past, I went twice, but it's not something I do every years as there are sightseeing destinations that I mix in (GenCon is an occasional destination for me).  Since they plan on having the digital one from now on, I plan on attending that every year when I don't go to physical GenCon so actually, I will be attending in spirit every year if not physical.

 

Posted by matthias9 jimdigris

jimdigris wrote:
That's what I see as being the deal breaker.  Someone is going to disregard the rules, and when asked to follow them will become belligerent. That could end up as a lawsuit.

I think a lot of these things come down to whether you choose to see the glass as half-full or half-empty.  You earlier posted that it was bad that only 22% of the public is vaccinated.  Personally, I think that's good news -- headed in the right direction.   Similarly, I think you are overly pessimistic about rules compliance.

I manage a public building that has had literally tens of thousands of people through the doors since the pandemic started -- including more then 26,000 just to vote (polling location -- so it was people of all political stripes).  In all that time, only 1 person has refused to wear a mask.  That person told staff he wouldn't do it.  We had a supervisor repeatedly offer a mask and insist that he will have to wear it or leave.  Ultimately, after some back and forth, he agreed to wear it, but told us how 'dumb' it was.  My point is that I just don't buy that non-compliance is a big problem. People know what they have to do to go to Target, Home Depot or wherever.  They may or may not like it, but they know what the deal is when they go there.    

If you look on Youtube, you can find a few people getting arrested, so anything can happen.   But, these events are extremely rare.  Again, my building had tens of thousands of people and zero times we have had to call the police.  I have no idea what the lawsuit is about that you are imagining coming out of this. 

TLDR:
1)  We don't even know what the rules would be yet
2)  Virtually everyone WILL follow the rules (even if they don't like them) just like they do everywhere else right now
3)  Gen Con would have a plan in place for how to respond if someone doesn't follow the rules

The glass is half full.  And there are four lights.

Posted by chaos62417

So are children allowed to attend this vax only gencon? What about people with a reason that they cannot get a vaccine? Are we only requiring vaccine card so we need to train people to spot and identify fakes or are we requiring medical confirmation that gencon is then liable for? 

Posted by squirecam chaos62417

chaos62417 wrote:
So are children allowed to attend this vax only gencon? What about people with a reason that they cannot get a vaccine? Are we only requiring vaccine card so we need to train people to spot and identify fakes or are we requiring medical confirmation that gencon is then liable for? 
If there is a medical concern where you cannot get a vaccine then I am sympathetic. My secretary is immunocompromised and is only recommended for the Pfizer vaccine which she cannot get yet.

But, with respect, if she said she wanted to go to gencon without a vaccine I would tell her that it's not appropriate for her to attend this year.

And, by the way, if it isnt safe for those with a vaccine then it sure isnt safe for one without it. 

Kids would be exempt in my mind because if you have to go to the germ fest that is school without a vaccine then you should be allowed to attend gencon.

I would also make it clear that any attempt to skirt the rules by faking a vaccination form, if caught, would result not only in a revocation of the badge, but loss of account and future badges to attend.

Get a shot. Or dont. But if one tried to intentionally violate the rules through a scam that person has no regard for the safety of the gencon attenedees and deserves a ban for future shows. I think that penalty would substantially reduce the chances that one would fake a vaccination. They would either get a shot or not attend.
 

Posted by squirecam

Here is an older NYT article discussing vaccine passports and how many airlines and companies are working on a digital passport. This would also lessen the chances of one faking their way into Gencon.

https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.amp.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16152490881713&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F02%2F04%2Ftravel%2Fcoronavirus-vaccine-passports.html

Posted by matthias9 chaos62417

chaos62417 wrote:
So are children allowed to attend this vax only gencon? What about people with a reason that they cannot get a vaccine? Are we only requiring vaccine card so we need to train people to spot and identify fakes or are we requiring medical confirmation that gencon is then liable for? 

Are you actually expecting answers to hypotheticals about a possible rule that itself we don't even know if is one that will be deployed?

In the event that they require vaccines, I'm sure they will answer these questions (well, not the liability one).

In the meantime, I'm sure they know from their survey that some of you don't want to get a shot. 

Posted by chaos62417 matthias9

matthias9 wrote:
chaos62417 wrote:
So are children allowed to attend this vax only gencon? What about people with a reason that they cannot get a vaccine? Are we only requiring vaccine card so we need to train people to spot and identify fakes or are we requiring medical confirmation that gencon is then liable for? 

Are you actually expecting answers to hypotheticals about a possible rule that itself we don't even know if is one that will be deployed?In the event that they require vaccines, I'm sure they will answer these questions (well, not the liability one).
In the meantime, I'm sure they know from their survey that some of you don't want to get a shot. 

yes I was expecting answers, not from Gen Con but from those that brought this as a suggestion. I am interested in knowing what people think, it’s easy to just say everyone needs a vaccine but then never consider any other questions. I know Gen Con will provide all of the answers that they can and when. 

Posted by chaos62417 squirecam


i dont believe This could be done in time for gen con. I also don’t know how we could require people to spend 200 more dollars on an item they would otherwise never use. Effective, yes. Feasible, I don’t not think so.

Posted by the_electron

I think it all boils down to everyone has a personal choice in balancing risks. Is it worth the risk to attend a convention for socializing/entertainment or is the risk of attending more than the benefit? That is true just as much today as it was 3 years ago. There are risks in everyday life, but we get so used to them we forget them. There is risk just driving or flying to Gencon. There is also risk taken by staying home (fires, tornados, meteors are all risks of staying in a building). From a purely logical perspective, I think it only makes sense to have Gencon this year, do what they can to accommodate safety (provide masks, sanitizing stations, gloves, request everyone get vaccinated), and let everyone decide if they are comfortable attending. As was mentioned already, there should be enough vaccines available for anyone who wants one in the US by June which allows time for a follow up dose as needed. Other countries are vaccinating as well. That means next year should have about the same amount of risk as this year, so if they cancel this year, it is not setting a good precedent.

There will be PLENTY of people who are vaccinated and willing to attend Gencon this year, so there is a good business case to hold the convention. There is a good social case to hold it. There is a case against having it for health concerns, but I would argue it will be that that way for the foreseeable future (as in in the next 10 years) and there has always been a cause for health concern even 5 years ago so this isn't that new. I wonder if this year will have even less con crud because people will be hyper aware of sanitation than in years previous. I'm not even sure they will need a mask mandate for the convention, if they want to require vaccinations to attend, we'll be in a safer position that going to the grocery store.

Anyway, to sum up: the risk posed by COVID-19 will be greatly reduced this year and will be as good as it'll be until we start genetically engineering it out of the race (aka, it's here to stay unfortunately) and everyone has a choice on whether they want to attend - so they should have the convention, have protection available to those who want it, encourage or require vaccines, and let it go on.

Posted by squirecam the_electron

the_electron wrote:
I think it all boils down to everyone has a personal choice in balancing risks. Is it worth the risk to attend a convention for socializing/entertainment or is the risk of attending more than the benefit? That is true just as much today as it was 3 years ago. There are risks in everyday life, but we get so used to them we forget them. There is risk just driving or flying to Gencon. There is also risk taken by staying home (fires, tornados, meteors are all risks of staying in a building). From a purely logical perspective, I think it only makes sense to have Gencon this year, do what they can to accommodate safety (provide masks, sanitizing stations, gloves, request everyone get vaccinated), and let everyone decide if they are comfortable attending. As was mentioned already, there should be enough vaccines available for anyone who wants one in the US by June which allows time for a follow up dose as needed. Other countries are vaccinating as well. That means next year should have about the same amount of risk as this year, so if they cancel this year, it is not setting a good precedent.
There will be PLENTY of people who are vaccinated and willing to attend Gencon this year, so there is a good business case to hold the convention. There is a good social case to hold it. There is a case against having it for health concerns, but I would argue it will be that that way for the foreseeable future (as in in the next 10 years) and there has always been a cause for health concern even 5 years ago so this isn't that new. I wonder if this year will have even less con crud because people will be hyper aware of sanitation than in years previous. I'm not even sure they will need a mask mandate for the convention, if they want to require vaccinations to attend, we'll be in a safer position that going to the grocery store.
Anyway, to sum up: the risk posed by COVID-19 will be greatly reduced this year and will be as good as it'll be until we start genetically engineering it out of the race (aka, it's here to stay unfortunately) and everyone has a choice on whether they want to attend - so they should have the convention, have protection available to those who want it, encourage or require vaccines, and let it go on.
if vaccines are not required then there would be limits to attendance as unvaccinated people would require the social distancing. Also logistically you'd have vaccinated people who can sit close to a board but other unvaccinated people who have to sit 6 feet away from the board and the others. It's a problem.

The logical and financial plan would be to require vaccines. That allows for the largest attendance and the fewest costs. Gencon is a business after all.

I would not rely on "encouragement" when health and safety is concerned. 

Posted by squirecam chaos62417

chaos62417 wrote:
i dont believe This could be done in time for gen con. I also don’t know how we could require people to spend 200 more dollars on an item they would otherwise never use. Effective, yes. Feasible, I don’t not think so.
Everyones got the latest lphone that can speed up the process, but they wont get a digital passport? I disagree.

Alot of attendees have to fly to Gencon. It would be usable and feasible. 

online
Posted by father bloodlust squirecam

squirecam wrote:
chaos62417 wrote:
i dont believe This could be done in time for gen con. I also don’t know how we could require people to spend 200 more dollars on an item they would otherwise never use. Effective, yes. Feasible, I don’t not think so.
Everyones got the latest lphone that can speed up the process, but they wont get a digital passport? I disagree.Alot of attendees have to fly to Gencon. It would be usable and feasible. 

Personally, I don't have an iPhone, or any smartphone. I doubt I'm the only one (though I'm probably in a minority).

Posted by mollymolly

Surprising how many people want Gen Con to happen but aren't willing to get the vaccine themselves.

There is a 0% chance Gen Con would be happening if we didn't have these vaccines.  Don't try to ride on others people's coattails.  Do your part. Roll up your sleeve.  Figuratively and literally.  And then let's get the game on!  We can do this.

Posted by insane

I just want to eat some good food, play some new games and generally just have some fun. 

- walks away kicking a pebble and mumbling something about stupid Mexican beer -

Posted by squirecam mollymolly

mollymolly wrote:
Surprising how many people want Gen Con to happen but aren't willing to get the vaccine themselves.
There is a 0% chance Gen Con would be happening if we didn't have these vaccines.  Don't try to ride on others people's coattails.  Do your part. Roll up your sleeve.  Figuratively and literally.  And then let's get the game on!  We can do this.
I just want to play games face to face. Give me daily temperature checks if that's what it takes...

Posted by matthias9 squirecam

squirecam wrote:
 
I just want to play games face to face. Give me daily temperature checks if that's what it takes...

There's a couple different ways we can take that temperature...

Posted by alans

Interesting discussion on the various hypotheticals, all of which I am sure the Gen Con staff are pondering.  Gen Con relies on a lot of "volunteer labor" to exist - if their survey show enough people won't attend, then who will run the games?
Personally, I have had 1 dose of the Pfizer vaccine, 2nd in a couple weeks, and if Gen Con happens, I'm there, and I will follow whatever restrictions they require.

Posted by njseahawksfan squirecam

squirecam wrote:
chaos62417 wrote:
i dont believe This could be done in time for gen con. I also don’t know how we could require people to spend 200 more dollars on an item they would otherwise never use. Effective, yes. Feasible, I don’t not think so.
Everyones got the latest lphone that can speed up the process, but they wont get a digital passport? I disagree.Alot of attendees have to fly to Gencon. It would be usable and feasible. 

Leaving off the whole strawman iPhone thing, you have to understand that the passport would be a deal breaker from some folks.  Personally I would get the passport (but I also plant to travel elsewhere over the next few years), but I recognize that it's not an easy thing to just add a couple of hundred more bucks onto the price tag for people.  It's a legitimate concern.

Posted by squirecam njseahawksfan

njseahawksfan wrote:
squirecam wrote:
chaos62417 wrote:
i dont believe This could be done in time for gen con. I also don’t know how we could require people to spend 200 more dollars on an item they would otherwise never use. Effective, yes. Feasible, I don’t not think so.
Everyones got the latest lphone that can speed up the process, but they wont get a digital passport? I disagree.Alot of attendees have to fly to Gencon. It would be usable and feasible. 

Leaving off the whole strawman iPhone thing, you have to understand that the passport would be a deal breaker from some folks.  Personally I would get the passport (but I also plant to travel elsewhere over the next few years), but I recognize that it's not an easy thing to just add a couple of hundred more bucks onto the price tag for people.  It's a legitimate concern.
Perhaps, and this is just me, but perhaps people shouldn't be traveling during a pandemic if the extra cost is out of their price range.

Gencon is a great time. But there are far more important things people need to do. And the top of that list should be their own health and safety. And then the health and safety of the other people they encounter.

Gencon may be only for those willing and able to comply with their restrictions. And that's ok. Gencon is a business and they need to make money. If people wont come until it's safe, and these restrictions make it safe enough that gencon can happen, then great.

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