new health update:
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Posted by bushmaster
#51

Mike,

It would help those of us not local to understand what the Local and State Regulations are.  Can you provide us a link or the text of those?

I honestly don't trust Gencon to follow any guidelines but their own.  Which is fine, because I support Gencon's right to do that.

Just afraid I will be unable to attend, again, because of Gencon's Guidelines (TM).

Thank you in advance for the information.

Posted by traveller
#52

Indiana State Health Department

Marion County Health Department

ICCLOS has not updated their response to Covid since August 2021 (not a good thing personally).

Most of all, GC (as a business) has the right to set the terms of access to their business with regards to the safety of employees and customers (the old we reserve the right to refuse access).

 

Posted by bushmaster
#53

Thank you.

Posted by fethbone
#54

For people who have to navigate complicated travel/family/budget logistics to attend, 4.5 months is really not that far off. For those of us who cared, wait and see was reasonable when we were 9, even 6 months out, but we're getting to the last quarter.

I am extremely fortunate that I live within reasonable driving distance and my hotel situation is flexible, but it is still not going to be a fun conversation if I tell my group three weeks before gencon I will not be purchasing a badge.  

 

Posted by bushmaster fethbone
#55

fethbone wrote:
For people who have to navigate complicated travel/family/budget logistics to attend, 4.5 months is really not that far off. For those of us who cared, wait and see was reasonable when we were 9, even 6 months out, but we're getting to the last quarter.
I am extremely fortunate that I live within reasonable driving distance and my hotel situation is flexible, but it is still not going to be a fun conversation if I tell my group three weeks before gencon I will not be purchasing a badge.  
 
You sum up my frustrations also. 

For the most part, right now, I am planning on get a refund of the my badge because I really don't see Gencon revising THEIR policy before June 17th.

All we can do is wait and see.

Posted by fethbone bushmaster
#56

bushmaster wrote:
fethbone wrote:
For people who have to navigate complicated travel/family/budget logistics to attend, 4.5 months is really not that far off. For those of us who cared, wait and see was reasonable when we were 9, even 6 months out, but we're getting to the last quarter.
I am extremely fortunate that I live within reasonable driving distance and my hotel situation is flexible, but it is still not going to be a fun conversation if I tell my group three weeks before gencon I will not be purchasing a badge.  
You sum up my frustrations also. For the most part, right now, I am planning on get a refund of the my badge because I really don't see Gencon revising THEIR policy before June 17th.
All we can do is wait and see.

Myself and others have considered still coming down to Indy to socialize with attending friends even if we don't buy badges, but Indy without participating in Gencon is also not my first choice for a vacation. But again, that's because I am lucky enough to have <4hr drive to Indy. If I had to fly I wouldn't even consider it.
 

Posted by general lopez traveller
#57

traveller wrote:
Indiana State Health Department
Marion County Health Department
ICCLOS has not updated their response to Covid since August 2021 (not a good thing personally).
Most of all, GC (as a business) has the right to set the terms of access to their business with regards to the safety of employees and customers (the old we reserve the right to refuse access).
The ICC has no mandates and most of the conventions being hosted there have had no mandates of any kind either. Indiana has been mask mandate free for a long time.  

Posted by grognard262
#58

We find ourselves in this bizarre and divisive world where somehow it is safe to pack thousands of screaming and singing mask-less people into a rock concert for three hours, yet at the same time it is definitely not safe to quietly sit through a three hour production of Hamilton without a mask.

This is what happens when events independently make these decisions while inevitably lacking the medical and epidemiological expertise to do so.  It comes down to some lay person deciding whether they think the thousands of scientists and doctors at the CDC and other health authorities are right or wrong.  I'd prefer that all events would leave the decision-making to the public health authorities, and simply follow the recommendations that are in place at the time of the event.

Posted by bushmaster grognard262
#59

chaoticneutral262 wrote:
We find ourselves in this bizarre and divisive world where somehow it is safe to pack thousands of screaming and singing mask-less people into a rock concert for three hours, yet at the same time it is definitely not safe to quietly sit through a three hour production of Hamilton without a mask.
This is what happens when events independently make these decisions while inevitably lacking the medical and epidemiological expertise to do so.  It comes down to some lay person deciding whether they think the thousands of scientists and doctors at the CDC and other health authorities are right or wrong.  I'd prefer that all events would leave the decision-making to the public health authorities, and simply follow the recommendations that are in place at the time of the event.
Yep.  It comes down to the person making decision personal bias.  If that person is scared, they will make the decision that makes them less scared.

I do find it interesting that the discussion on this thread has been about the mask mandate and not the vaccination mandate. 

Posted by mikehilly
#60

Decisions like this made by an organization and/or venue are more complex than 'is the primary decider feeling good about how things are currently.'  A lot of places relaxed immediately (to align with CDC guidance) because they need people to be there to survive as a business.  If people are comfortable going to those places with relaxed guidance then that is great for those folks and the places they are going.  The amount of factors that go into the decision are not trivial and attempting to weigh all that input isn't as easy as it sounds.

Gen Con needs to look at so many factors to make this decision.  They have relationships with hundreds of vendors/companies to consider as well as the attendee population.  Flip flopping a decision back and forth, even if in alignment with CDC, makes it hard for anyone to make a personal choice about attending as a con goer, vendor, or volunteer.  There are people who won't go if X happens or doesn't happen.  (X includes mask required,  vax proof required, mask optional, vax poof not required, lots of other factors).  There are a significant amount of people who will go regardless of X - see last year.  Same goes for vendors and volunteers, both of which are critical for a successful con. 

It is super frustrating not knowing for sure what the end state will be, especially as the date approaches.  But at this point we just need to be patient.  If patience isn't in the cards due to all the reasons brought up in this thread, then it might mean waiting a year to attend. 

Not that this makes my comments any more/less valid but I wanted to provide some background on where I am coming from.
Not local - about 500 miles away.
Attended in 2021 and the four previous cons.
Will be attending in 2022 regardless of COVID guidance or lack of.

This comment is intended to be respectful and authentic.
Cheers!

 

Posted by dpuck1998
#61

My local theatre (Broadway quality shows) just stopped vaccine and mask mandates for our next show (starting next week).  Its not true that these companies are not doing what they "think" is best. 
You can absolutely do what you think is best and I support your decision to do so, but don't blame guidelines that you followed before but choose to not follow now.

 

Posted by fethbone bushmaster
#62

bushmaster wrote:
chaoticneutral262 wrote:
We find ourselves in this bizarre and divisive world where somehow it is safe to pack thousands of screaming and singing mask-less people into a rock concert for three hours, yet at the same time it is definitely not safe to quietly sit through a three hour production of Hamilton without a mask.
This is what happens when events independently make these decisions while inevitably lacking the medical and epidemiological expertise to do so.  It comes down to some lay person deciding whether they think the thousands of scientists and doctors at the CDC and other health authorities are right or wrong.  I'd prefer that all events would leave the decision-making to the public health authorities, and simply follow the recommendations that are in place at the time of the event.
Yep.  It comes down to the person making decision personal bias.  If that person is scared, they will make the decision that makes them less scared.I do find it interesting that the discussion on this thread has been about the mask mandate and not the vaccination mandate. 
I have thoughts on that too, but wouldn't want to be seen as Debating the Science. 
From my limited pool of attendees, people seem to take issue with the mask mandate more than the vaccine mandate because they are already vaccinated.
I am confident in predicting that neither Indiana nor Marion county will have a covid19 vaccine mandate for the foreseeable future, so also nobody can fall back on "state and local guidelines" to enforce or justify a vaccine mandate for a privately managed event. 
Not that Marion county had a mask mandate in September 2021 either.
If a business wants to require...whatever...better that they just own that fully. As you said, it doesn't make sense to cherry pick which Science to follow.

Posted by forar
#63

I mean, end of the day, their house, their rules.

With tens of thousands of people attending, all with their own concerns, levels of risk tolerance, and more, there's literally zero chance of picking a path that will make all of us happy. Too restrictive. Not restrictive enough. Whatever the case may be.

My tickets are booked, I'll be there working the event once more, following whatever guidelines are expected of me by the company/venue/organization/city/state/etc.

What those specifically will look like remains to be seen, and as I noted ages ago, probably won't be known for certain until we're more like a month out. Even if the situation changes in the weeks that follow (for the better) I don't see it shifting, due to the aforementioned ire being garnered by those who demand they do / don't do X, Y, or Z thing.

Unless there's a major security/safety concern (a major and horrifying new variant tearing through the populace days or weeks before showtime), I imagine we'll see things lock down close enough to reduce the likelihood of being blindsided like that, but far enough out to get the info out to as many attendees/exhibitors/etc as possible in a timely fashion.

It's not ideal to be left in a holding pattern, but we all just have to rise to the occasion and be our best selves, to the staff, to each other, even to ourselves.

Posted by mikeboozer forar
#64

forar wrote:
I mean, end of the day, their house, their rules.
With tens of thousands of people attending, all with their own concerns, levels of risk tolerance, and more, there's literally zero chance of picking a path that will make all of us happy. Too restrictive. Not restrictive enough. Whatever the case may be.
My tickets are booked, I'll be there working the event once more, following whatever guidelines are expected of me by the company/venue/organization/city/state/etc.
What those specifically will look like remains to be seen, and as I noted ages ago, probably won't be known for certain until we're more like a month out. Even if the situation changes in the weeks that follow (for the better) I don't see it shifting, due to the aforementioned ire being garnered by those who demand they do / don't do X, Y, or Z thing.
Unless there's a major security/safety concern (a major and horrifying new variant tearing through the populace days or weeks before showtime), I imagine we'll see things lock down close enough to reduce the likelihood of being blindsided like that, but far enough out to get the info out to as many attendees/exhibitors/etc as possible in a timely fashion.
It's not ideal to be left in a holding pattern, but we all just have to rise to the occasion and be our best selves, to the staff, to each other, even to ourselves.

Well said! Huzah!

Mike
 

Posted by samlamiam fethbone
#65

fethbone wrote:
bushmaster wrote:
chaoticneutral262 wrote:  It comes down to some lay person deciding whether they think the thousands of scientists and doctors at the CDC and other health authorities are right or wrong.  I'd prefer that all events would leave the decision-making to the public health authorities, and simply follow the recommendations that are in place at the time of the event.
I do find it interesting that the discussion on this thread has been about the mask mandate and not the vaccination mandate. 
From my limited pool of attendees, people seem to take issue with the mask mandate more than the vaccine mandate because they are already vaccinated.

Yeah, a vaccine mandate is super simple to comply with for 99%+ of the population over the age of 5.  Show up at literally any pharmacy in the country at any time and get a shot for free.  But some people have to overcome their fear of the vaccine, trust the CDC recommendation and the experience of millions of others around them, and get the jab.

A mask mandate is a pain in the ears, though.  It affects my experience while I'm at the convention.  And according to the CDC, it isn't necessary now.  Some people have to get over their fear, trust the CDC recommendation and the experience of millions of others around them, and accept that allowing others to be mask-free is fine.

Posted by bushmaster samlamiam
#66

samlamiam wrote:A mask mandate is a pain in the ears, though.  It affects my experience while I'm at the convention.  And according to the CDC, it isn't necessary now.  Some people have to get over their fear, trust the CDC recommendation and the experience of millions of others around them, and accept that allowing others to be mask-free is fine.
For me, I did a con back in September and wore a mask for 3 days.  Was the worst con experience I have ever had and will not do it again.

I personally don't hold out much hope that adults will be allowed to make decisions for themselves.
 

Posted by dpuck1998 forar
#67

forar wrote:
I mean, end of the day, their house, their rules.
With tens of thousands of people attending, all with their own concerns, levels of risk tolerance, and more, there's literally zero chance of picking a path that will make all of us happy. Too restrictive. Not restrictive enough. Whatever the case may be.
My tickets are booked, I'll be there working the event once more, following whatever guidelines are expected of me by the company/venue/organization/city/state/etc.
What those specifically will look like remains to be seen, and as I noted ages ago, probably won't be known for certain until we're more like a month out. Even if the situation changes in the weeks that follow (for the better) I don't see it shifting, due to the aforementioned ire being garnered by those who demand they do / don't do X, Y, or Z thing.
Unless there's a major security/safety concern (a major and horrifying new variant tearing through the populace days or weeks before showtime), I imagine we'll see things lock down close enough to reduce the likelihood of being blindsided like that, but far enough out to get the info out to as many attendees/exhibitors/etc as possible in a timely fashion.
It's not ideal to be left in a holding pattern, but we all just have to rise to the occasion and be our best selves, to the staff, to each other, even to ourselves.

I 100 percent agree, their house their rules.  However, don't point out state and local guidelines and CDC guidelines that you used to put restrictions in place then keeping trying to have the same restrictions when those same guidelines are now different.  I will never argue they can't do what they want, but why are you doing it is the question.  You (Schools, theatres, many other venues but not all) are no longer following the same guidelines they pointed at when they put those restrictions in place.

 

Posted by grognard262 forar
#68

forar wrote:I mean, end of the day, their house, their rules.

I'm at Gary Con in Lake Geneva right now with a couple thousand other gamers, and masks are required.  It was hotly debated on their Facebook page, but in the end it was their house, their rules.

Nevertheless, a huge number of attendees are ignoring the requirement.  In the hallways of the convention, compliance hovers at around 50%.  A good 10-20% of the gaming tables have several, and in many cases most or all of the players not wearing masks.  Players are taking a vote at the start of their games.  The defiance is palpable.

If Gen Con overrules the CDC recommendations, they should plan on expending extensive resources for enforcement.  The most popular costume might be Rosa Parks.

Posted by raptorov
#69

Do they have a vaccine requirement?
If so, how is it handled and is it being defied at the same rate as masks?

Posted by traveller grognard262
#70

chaoticneutral262 wrote:
forar wrote:I mean, end of the day, their house, their rules.

I'm at Gary Con in Lake Geneva right now with a couple thousand other gamers, and masks are required.  It was hotly debated on their Facebook page, but in the end it was their house, their rules.Nevertheless, a huge number of attendees are ignoring the requirement.  In the hallways of the convention, compliance hovers at around 50%.  A good 10-20% of the gaming tables have several, and in many cases most or all of the players not wearing masks.  Players are taking a vote at the start of their games.  The defiance is palpable.
If Gen Con overrules the CDC recommendations, they should plan on expending extensive resources for enforcement.  The most popular costume might be Rosa Parks.

Keep in mind there are differences between Garycon and Gencon.  Garycon, thousands of attendees, Gencon TENS of thousands of attendees.  

If last year was any indication on mask enforcement, they are on top of it.  I personally witnessed it and they had no sense of humor or took any backtalk about it.

Gencon has always had the position that enjoyment and safety of the guests are at the top of their priority list.  If that means they err on the side of caution (more restrictive) then that is what they do.  

There are still hotspots and new variants (not a Loki reference) spreading around the world, though not as much in the US.

 

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