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Posted by donaldbain samlamiam

samlamiam wrote:I like this idea.  I think the percent of vendors that want a mask mandate is substantially higher than the percent of attendees that want a mask mandate.  
 
Vendors include those companies running events outside the dealer hall.  Paizo (which seems to have only 2/5 of the Sagamore this year), True Dungeon, the Group that runs the Magic events who's name escapes me, every company that has employees/volunteers that runs company events in any of the halls outside the dealer hall. 

If the vendors want Mask & Vacs (M&V) and won't be there if they don't have it, what then?  How many of them signed the contract with the understanding M&V will be required as was announced by Gen Con way back when? 

If Gen Con changes direction and everyone that wasn't there last year decides not to go again this year, how happy are you going to be?

Posted by samlamiam donaldbain

donaldbain wrote:
samlamiam wrote:I like this idea.  I think the percent of vendors that want a mask mandate is substantially higher than the percent of attendees that want a mask mandate.  
Vendors include those companies running events outside the dealer hall.  Paizo (which seems to have only 2/5 of the Sagamore this year), True Dungeon, the Group that runs the Magic events who's name escapes me, every company that has employees/volunteers that runs company events in any of the halls outside the dealer hall. If the vendors want Mask & Vacs (M&V) and won't be there if they don't have it, what then?  How many of them signed the contract with the understanding M&V will be required as was announced by Gen Con way back when? 
If Gen Con changes direction and everyone that wasn't there last year decides not to go again this year, how happy are you going to be?

There has never been a promise that masks would be required.  Neither attendees nor vendors have been misled on that front.  Always been subject to change.

If Gen Con changes direction and the bossy vendors that are trying to control everyone are gone, I'd be THRILLED.
 

Posted by general lopez donaldbain

donaldbain wrote:Vendors include those companies running events outside the dealer hall.  Paizo (which seems to have only 2/5 of the Sagamore this year), True Dungeon, the Group that runs the Magic events who's name escapes me, every company that has employees/volunteers that runs company events in any of the halls outside the dealer hall. If the vendors want Mask & Vacs (M&V) and won't be there if they don't have it, what then?  How many of them signed the contract with the understanding M&V will be required as was announced by Gen Con way back when? 
If Gen Con changes direction and everyone that wasn't there last year decides not to go again this year, how happy are you going to be?

Last year most of the big companies decided early on they were not attending. Maybe a few might pull out but I doubt anything like last year. We are in a much different place than last years Gencon with Covid. I seriously doubt Gencon has been telling the vendors the policy is set in the stone, and then turning around and telling the attendees its still hasn't been decided. Im sure the vendors know the policy can change just like the attendees. 

Posted by donaldbain samlamiam

samlamiam wrote:If Gen Con changes direction and the bossy vendors that are trying to control everyone are gone, I'd be THRILLED.
 
If the bossy vendors who pay for everything are gone, you'll be sitting in an empty convention center.

Posted by squirecam gsmiley

gsmiley wrote:
squirecam wrote:
gsmiley wrote:
helenbb wrote:
Honestly, I think the Gen Con organizers THEMSELVES want people to wear masks, and that's the basis of their decision. That was certainly the vibe I got from the official blog post. I may be wrong, but it certainly *feels* like they are scared, and projecting that onto us. If this is the case, then our opinions are not nearly as important to them as we would like to think.

Bingo, you nailed it.  Last year it was all about "follow the science" because the science said masks are required.  Now that the science says masks are optional, the science doesn't matter.  It's all driven by fear.
Masks are not "optional". They are recommended. While the CDC will not mandate wearing one, that doesnt mean they dont think people should be wearing one. They do.In any event, Gencon gets to set its rules for its convention. People can attend knowing what the rules are. If they agree to go, they agree to follow the rules.

No, they are not.  Stop spreading misinformation.  Per the CDC:  "At all levels, people can wear a mask based on personal preference, informed by personal level of risk."Only at a high community level (e.g. 200 new C19 cases per 100,000 per day or certain hospital stress levels) do they say "wear a well-fitting mask indoors in public, regardless of vaccination status."
I'm sorry but this is not accurate. The CDC continues to recommend mask wearing for transportation and large gatherings.

There is a difference in what they say you should do in daily activities and what they recommend when you travel or attend a large event. They are treated differently.

https://www-northstarmeetingsgroup-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.northstarmeetingsgroup.com/News/Coronavirus-CDC-Event-Meeting-Conference-Planning-Guidelines-Tips-Advice/AMP?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16527433225561&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.northstarmeetingsgroup.com%2FNews%2FCoronavirus-CDC-Event-Meeting-Conference-Planning-Guidelines-Tips-Advice

Staff members should be required to wear face masks and attendees should be encouraged to wear them as well, especially those participants who are not vaccinated.

Posted by fethbone squirecam

squirecam wrote:
gsmiley wrote:
squirecam wrote:
gsmiley wrote:
helenbb wrote:
Honestly, I think the Gen Con organizers THEMSELVES want people to wear masks, and that's the basis of their decision. That was certainly the vibe I got from the official blog post. I may be wrong, but it certainly *feels* like they are scared, and projecting that onto us. If this is the case, then our opinions are not nearly as important to them as we would like to think.

Bingo, you nailed it.  Last year it was all about "follow the science" because the science said masks are required.  Now that the science says masks are optional, the science doesn't matter.  It's all driven by fear.
Masks are not "optional". They are recommended. While the CDC will not mandate wearing one, that doesnt mean they dont think people should be wearing one. They do.In any event, Gencon gets to set its rules for its convention. People can attend knowing what the rules are. If they agree to go, they agree to follow the rules.

No, they are not.  Stop spreading misinformation.  Per the CDC:  "At all levels, people can wear a mask based on personal preference, informed by personal level of risk."Only at a high community level (e.g. 200 new C19 cases per 100,000 per day or certain hospital stress levels) do they say "wear a well-fitting mask indoors in public, regardless of vaccination status."
I'm sorry but this is not accurate. The CDC continues to recommend mask wearing for transportation and large gatherings.There is a difference in what they say you should do in daily activities and what they recommend when you travel or attend a large event. They are treated differently.
https://www-northstarmeetingsgroup-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.northstarmeetingsgroup.com/News/Coronavirus-CDC-Event-Meeting-Conference-Planning-Guidelines-Tips-Advice/AMP?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16527433225561&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.northstarmeetingsgroup.com%2FNews%2FCoronavirus-CDC-Event-Meeting-Conference-Planning-Guidelines-Tips-Advice
Staff members should be required to wear face masks and attendees should be encouraged to wear them as well, especially those participants who are not vaccinated.
one fact that is accurate is that mike has stated multiple times to stop debating the science of masks and posting links to go along with it.

Posted by fethbone papabees

papabees wrote:
I'll be there to run demos for a company that I love supporting but neither myself nor my group of five have purchased tickets yet because masked gaming was just not something that we particularly enjoyed.
I think I could live with a mask requirement for the dealer hall but I can only speak for myself. It might be a way to make both the vendors and the attendees happy though. 
I could see that as a reasonable compromise. The person in my group who went from “not buying a badge if masks required” to “I guess I will put up with it if they keep the mask requirement” did so expressly to have access to the dealer hall. If I end up not getting a badge, that (and auction/consignment shop)  will certainly be the thing I miss the most.

Posted by mikeboozer

Trying hard to keep this open, really wish you people could follow the rules for this topic but some of you are back to the back and forth.

Mike

Posted by brooks

Honestly I don't think Gen Con management is particularly pro- or anti-mask. I think they are pro whatever is not going to irritate the majority of people attending and spending money. I also think they got burned last year when they went with no masks for the vaccinated early in the summer and then the "Delta wave" hit and they reversed and rescinded that at the last moment to masks for everyone. No doubt a lot of wasted time and resources handling refunds and customer service when they could have been devoted to preparing the actual convention. There was a blog post earlier this year where it was stated they can only change policy once and we're still 80 days from Gen Con. 

As several have stated Origins has gone with "Masks highly recommended" roughly a month before that convention. I suspect Gen Con is waiting to see what happens with that convention... I know smaller but with an identical gamer demographic, very similar Midwest city and state also with no mask mandates, identical gaming conditions, etc. 

It is unfortunate that masks have developed such a political/ideological connotation (for and against,) which makes all of this highly charged. It is also important to realize that everyone active on the forums is a very small subset of the larger Gen Con attendees. 

Reading the tea leaves (of which I am no better than anyone else) I am guessing they want to nix the mask mandate and/or vaccination requirement for no other reason than the simple logistics of enforcing all of that. There have been a few posts from Gen Con employees where "If the mask mandate is still in place" with the if in bold type and they have yet to release definitive policies. I would suppose they are hoping such policies will not need to be developed or released. 

Obviously I could be completely wrong, but I am relatively confident that we'll have something more set in about a month or so. 

Posted by samlamiam donaldbain

donaldbain wrote:
samlamiam wrote:If Gen Con changes direction and the bossy vendors that are trying to control everyone are gone, I'd be THRILLED.
If the bossy vendors who pay for everything are gone, you'll be sitting in an empty convention center.

Hyperbole doesn't worry me.  My local convention survived without masks, and Origins will survive without masks, so I think Gen Con would survive.  

Mike, thanks for being patient with us - no science debate or uncivility here!

Posted by cellblock

Most people, in a sense, "don't care" if there's a mask mandate at Gen Con.  (They "don't care" in that, if there is one, they'll comply, because four days of gaming in masks beats four days sitting at home without them.)

Some people can't or won't come if there isn't a mask mandate.  They're either at higher risk and can't justify the trip without some assurance that everyone is taking similar precautions, or they're just more risk-averse and don't want to spend all the time manning a vendor booth just to have shitty people come and blow their germs on everything.  (Which, granted, happened pre-COVID, but now carries potential long-term serious consequences.)

Some people won't come if there *is* a mask mandate.  They *don't* think that four days of gaming in masks beats staying home, and would stay home instead.  (Many of) These people will shout about "personal choice" and "let people decide their own risks".  In my opinion, they can make the "personal choice" to skip the con if they can't deal with a mask, but that's just me.

Personally, I'm mostly in the first camp, although I lean a little into the second.  I think Gen Con *should* require masks, mostly because I personally don't care about excluding the third group vs. the second.  Also, they've been saying they're required all year so far, so they should just make the policy concrete so all the people in the third group that haven't already made other plans can go ahead and do that well before the refund deadlines.

Also, the precautions for not getting/spreading COVID-19 at Gen Con are a lot bigger than just wearing masks or not and getting vaccinated or not.  You should test beforehand (an at-home rapid test is probably fine if you're not symptomatic) to make sure you're not bringing it with you, and you should test again a few days after you get home to make sure you didn't bring it back and spread it to your friends, local game stores, and community at large.  You should get vaccinated (if a doctor hasn't otherwise recommended against it).  You should get a booster (again, if medically indicated for you).  You should do all the personal hygiene stuff that gets stressed so much on these message board because we all know a significant portion of the attendees don't.  (Although masking might also help with that smelly person next to you.)

Conventions like this are inherently risky right now, but there are things they can do to provide the most protection they can to the most attendees as possible, and it's downright irresponsible to not do them.

Posted by toxic_rat cellblock

cellblock wrote:<snip>

You should do all the personal hygiene stuff that gets stressed so much on these message board because we all know a significant portion of the attendees don't.


I suspect that this is probably the best thing that any of can do, masked or not.  Far too many people try to survive the four days on a little sleep, a lot of caffeine, and some junk food here or there.

online
Posted by father bloodlust toxic_rat

toxic_rat wrote:
cellblock wrote:<snip>You should do all the personal hygiene stuff that gets stressed so much on these message board because we all know a significant portion of the attendees don't.

I suspect that this is probably the best thing that any of can do, masked or not.  Far too many people try to survive the four days on a little sleep, a lot of caffeine, and some junk food here or there.

I think the "hygiene stuff" meant things like bathing/showering.

Posted by cellblock father bloodlust

father bloodlust wrote:
I think the "hygiene stuff" meant things like bathing/showering.

Specifically, I was going for things like hand washing, but staying hydrated, fed, and rested goes a long way in terms of keeping your body in proper working order.

Posted by toxic_rat father bloodlust

father bloodlust wrote:
toxic_rat wrote:
cellblock wrote:<snip>You should do all the personal hygiene stuff that gets stressed so much on these message board because we all know a significant portion of the attendees don't.

I suspect that this is probably the best thing that any of can do, masked or not.  Far too many people try to survive the four days on a little sleep, a lot of caffeine, and some junk food here or there.

I think the "hygiene stuff" meant things like bathing/showering.
Agreed.  

Posted by joho

Early rumblings that Origins is going to reinstate the mask requirement. With cases rising nationally sounds like a good call and we should be prepared for masking requirement to be in place for Gencon if large game gatherings are reverting in the face of spread at similar events and in removal of masks for domestic travel against recommendations.

Posted by quarex

I was just coming here to post that, as has already happened like six times since March 2020, the rumors of COVID-19's death have been greatly exaggerated and Here We Go Again(tm) so we will have to see how things look even for Origins, let alone Gen-Con (I will be a VIG at both!  Live updates!)

online
Posted by father bloodlust

Good call indeed. Whatever it takes for them to run the con at full capacity safely.

Honestly, I don't get why masks are such a big deal to some. Would I prefer things to be back to normal and not need them? Of course. But they're not yet, at least not entirely. Until they are, the most convenient way to keep ourselves and others safe is to mask up. I don't understand why it's such a deal-breaker for some, or treated like the worst-case scenario.

Posted by sovietprince

I just don't get why the restrictions are more this year then last year when things were much worse

Posted by cellblock sovietprince

sovietprince wrote:
I just don't get why the restrictions are more this year then last year when things were much worse
Masks were required last year; they are (for now) required this year.  That’s not more restrictive.

Vaccines were not required last year because they were not available in many places due to phased rollouts and supply issues, and were not approved for most kids at all.  Now supplies are plentiful and they’re approved for everyone of ages down to 5.

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