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Posted by samlamiam donaldbain

donaldbain wrote:
sovietprince wrote:I want the abilty to decide for myself when a mask is needed, if I want to sit in an open space and rest I like the abilty to be maskless I don't want other people to tell me I can't take my mask off in an open area with almost no one around 
You have that ability, just stick to properties you own.  On other's property, you have to play by their rules.

There is no question that Gen Con can set its own rules.  Discussing that is a red herring.  It's about what they should do, not what they can do.  Turn about what you say and those who don't want any risk of exposure to Covid can stay home and they won't be exposed. 

Would I voluntarily walk maskless into a crowd of 50,000 people knowing that 25 of them are infected with a disease I've already had and been vaccinated against three times in the past 14 months?  Yes.  Yes I would.  That's why I got vaccinated - so I wouldn't have to live in fear.  Anyway, probably won't post again today, because I'm headed to a concert with thousands of other people, even though there's no mask mandate.

Posted by kevinrg

I have COVID now.    Only single vax back in mid-2021, no masks basically for this entire time since late 2020 (Gencon 21' was the only time in the last 1 1/2 years other than hospital visits).   Was basically just my turn to get it.   Did I get it from the local arcade I went to, the restaurant, any store I went to or the playground I take my son to?  No idea.. doesn't matter to me.   

 

Posted by donaldbain samlamiam

samlamiam wrote:Discussing that is a red herring.  It's about what they should do, not what they can do.
It was a specific answer to a specific person making a specific statement.

Anyway, Covid cases on the rise.

Posted by donaldbain kevinrg

kevinrg wrote:
I have COVID now.    Only single vax back in mid-2021, no masks basically for this entire time since late 2020 (Gencon 21' was the only time in the last 1 1/2 years other than hospital visits).   Was basically just my turn to get it.   
 
I did nothing to prevent it from happening, so it's just fate.  Amazing.

Posted by kevinrg donaldbain

donaldbain wrote:
kevinrg wrote:
I have COVID now.    Only single vax back in mid-2021, no masks basically for this entire time since late 2020 (Gencon 21' was the only time in the last 1 1/2 years other than hospital visits).   Was basically just my turn to get it.   
I did nothing to prevent it from happening, so it's just fate.  Amazing.

There are plenty of people that take every precaution and get it and plenty that do absolutely nothing and don't get it.   Now that I have it, I will hang out at home until I test negative so it ends with me.

Posted by general lopez kevinrg

kevinrg wrote:
donaldbain wrote:
kevinrg wrote:
I have COVID now.    Only single vax back in mid-2021, no masks basically for this entire time since late 2020 (Gencon 21' was the only time in the last 1 1/2 years other than hospital visits).   Was basically just my turn to get it.   
I did nothing to prevent it from happening, so it's just fate.  Amazing.

There are plenty of people that take every precaution and get it and plenty that do absolutely nothing and don't get it.

Exactly, I know plenty of triple vax people that have had it multiple times, and plenty of unvaccinated non masking wearing people that have never had it. Covid is just like the flu at this point and unfortunately will probably never be going away. When do we move on and get back to normal? Why should the people that continue to live in fear of it, get to dictate the rules of how the rest of us go about our day. There was always a risk to catch con crud at Gencon, nothing has changed on that front. If you are that worried to catch covid that you want your restrictions imposed on your fellow attendees, then maybe you should not be attending Gencon. I can go to a sporting events, political events, concerts, bars, other non gaming conventions, just about everywhere no matter how many people will be there, except a hospital understandably, with no restrictions, but I can't sit at a gaming table with 6 other people without restrictions at Gencon.     

Posted by raptorov

Well, I got my Moderna 2's, which for a trypanophobe was a MEGA BIG deal, and was all set to get my booster in April until my wife got Covid from a co-worker who went to a scrapbooking thing,. She locked herself in the bedroom for 8 days to keep me from getting it, and - fun fact - I got it anyway. Not so bad, kinda sinus infection-ey. But I am a sort-of healthy Gen-Xer. Three days and back to hiking.
My wife had it worse, but we did alright. 
So, I plan to get my booster in June-ish now.
I plan on wearing a mask at GenCon, whatever the PTB say.
I am volunteering in a customer forward way, and if folks feel better if I do, then so what?
Truth be told, I have been coughed on and sneezed on enough at the dealer hall throughout the years to make me think the mask may not be such a bad idea.
I will be hitting the Airbourne hard like usual, no alcohol, good breakfast, balanced dinner, good sleep like the previous 5 years or so to keep the Con Crud at bay.
But: Game on! Let do this!!
 

Posted by quarex cinnibar

cinnibar wrote:Amazing how the talking points have shifted since Origins changed their policy.
I was thinking the same thing, and ultimately (not to take away from your good point) we are basically at a point in society where there is so much information available that argument has ceased to function as a way to change someone's mind, as you can just go find someone who, to you, is an authoritative voice, and supports what you want to argue.

Well O.K. and people are also arguing maximizing safety versus maximizing enjoyment, which is certainly an interesting theoretical argument, but of course they couch these sides as though they are using pure objectivity, which is what leads to the anger in the first place.

Posted by father bloodlust quarex

quarex wrote:
cinnibar wrote:Amazing how the talking points have shifted since Origins changed their policy.
I was thinking the same thing, and ultimately (not to take away from your good point) we are basically at a point in society where there is so much information available that argument has ceased to function as a way to change someone's mind, as you can just go find someone who, to you, is an authoritative voice, and supports what you want to argue.Well O.K. and people are also arguing maximizing safety versus maximizing enjoyment, which is certainly an interesting theoretical argument, but of course they couch these sides as though they are using pure objectivity, which is what leads to the anger in the first place.

Or as the great Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw once put it:

"We live in an age where mass communication has counterintuitively turned all attempts at verbal debate into a basketball game where the teams are on different courts, and stand around a basket racking up meaningless points and throwing shit over the dividing wall."

Posted by sovietprince general lopez

general lopez wrote:
kevinrg wrote:
donaldbain wrote:
kevinrg wrote:
I have COVID now.    Only single vax back in mid-2021, no masks basically for this entire time since late 2020 (Gencon 21' was the only time in the last 1 1/2 years other than hospital visits).   Was basically just my turn to get it.   
I did nothing to prevent it from happening, so it's just fate.  Amazing.

There are plenty of people that take every precaution and get it and plenty that do absolutely nothing and don't get it.

Exactly, I know plenty of triple vax people that have had it multiple times, and plenty of unvaccinated non masking wearing people that have never had it. Covid is just like the flu at this point and unfortunately will probably never be going away. When do we move on and get back to normal? Why should the people that continue to live in fear of it, get to dictate the rules of how the rest of us go about our day. There was always a risk to catch con crud at Gencon, nothing has changed on that front. If you are that worried to catch covid that you want your restrictions imposed on your fellow attendees, then maybe you should not be attending Gencon. I can go to a sporting events, political events, concerts, bars, other non gaming conventions, just about everywhere no matter how many people will be there, except a hospital understandably, with no restrictions, but I can't sit at a gaming table with 6 other people without restrictions at Gencon.     
Exactly when does it end? next year will we be discussing the same thing? Yes cases may be rising the point is what is not rising which is death 

Posted by grognard262

It's worth considering why the CDC relaxed their masking recommendations, knowing that wearing them reduces transmission.

The reason is that they want people to mask up when it counts the most -- during times of high transmission and stress to the hospital system.  They also know that people are more willing to mask up during these times if they know the masks can come off at times when things are better.

Going against the CDC recommendation undermines public health in the long run, because it creates the impression that mask policies are arbitrary and not based on science.  This perception makes it less likely that people will mask up when it is really needed.

 

Posted by cinnibar

Given the animosity a segment has shown towards the CDC recommendations because they did not care to wear a protective device when recommended, I find this wishful thinking.  

They do not care for the CDC recommendations unless usable to justify no masks anywhere they wish to be.  Then it becomes a talking point for some argument gymnastics until it changes against their desire.  This has been shown time and again.

Posted by lehane donaldbain

donaldbain wrote:
kevinrg wrote:
I have COVID now.    Only single vax back in mid-2021, no masks basically for this entire time since late 2020 (Gencon 21' was the only time in the last 1 1/2 years other than hospital visits).   Was basically just my turn to get it.   
I did nothing to prevent it from happening, so it's just fate.  Amazing.
As I mentioned earlier in this Thread, I have twice gone to Planet Comicon in Kansas City in the past 9 months. 

The first one (last August) had a mask mandate and I got covid. The second one (March) did not have a mask mandate and I did not get covid. 

The presence or non-presence of masks didn't amount to any thing. They did not prevent me from catching covid. The Vaccine didn't stop it either cause I am vaccinated and was for both trips. 

Masking in the convention center (for either Gencon and/or Origins) while the entire rest of the city is unmasked is probably going to be ineffective unless people are promptly retreating to their hotel rooms and ordering non-contact delivered room service and avoiding everyone else and everywhere else. (Speaking for myself, I won't be doing that). 

 

Posted by grognard262 cinnibar

cinnibar wrote:
Given the animosity a segment has shown towards the CDC recommendations because they did not care to wear a protective device when recommended, I find this wishful thinking.  
They do not care for the CDC recommendations unless usable to justify no masks anywhere they wish to be.  Then it becomes a talking point for some argument gymnastics until it changes against their desire.  This has been shown time and again.

Well, now its happening from the other direction.  The same people who were pleading for people to listen to the CDC over the past two years are now pleading with Gen Con to not listen to the CDC.  Science, increasingly, has nothing to do with it.

Posted by cinnibar grognard262

grognard262 wrote:
cinnibar wrote:
Given the animosity a segment has shown towards the CDC recommendations because they did not care to wear a protective device when recommended, I find this wishful thinking.  
They do not care for the CDC recommendations unless usable to justify no masks anywhere they wish to be.  Then it becomes a talking point for some argument gymnastics until it changes against their desire.  This has been shown time and again.

Well, now its happening from the other direction.  The same people who were pleading for people to listen to the CDC over the past two years are now pleading with Gen Con to not listen to the CDC.  Science, increasingly, has nothing to do with it.

There's a world of difference between pleading to do AT LEAST the CDC recommendation and refusing outright to consider anything but one's breathing hole as sacred ground. :)

Posted by bigfathairyguy

What really should have been done from the start is just to say masks are required at Gencon. Then allowed event coordinators to choose if they will allow people to not wear masks during their event and put that in the event catalog.

That would have been the right compromise to protect people but balance enjoyment of the convention. You read through the comments and no one is really arguing about having to wear masks in the hallway or dealer hall. It is really about during events. They could have left that up to event coordinators and if the event coordinator wants a mask and you don't want to do the event with the mask then you don't select it. Same thing if you don't want to participate in maskless events then you don't.

Even laying out where events are at. They could have probably figured that out. We used to have smoking and non-smoking in restaurants.

It would have left Gencon being the good guy. People that want to protect themselves could and people that want a break during the day from wearing a mask could get that without leaving the convention.

Posted by quarex

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it is not "masks do not work" because what you actually mean is "being lax with your masks or wearing them improperly does not work," because, well, sorry, I refuse to believe the collective weight of understanding of the mechanics of blocking particles from reaching the respiratory system is incorrect.

I mean, I shaved my beard to stubble last year for the convention because even the smallest break between mask and skin reduces effectiveness.  How many people who wore masks and believe they do not work because they got COVID-19 anyway have enormous gamer beards?

Posted by mikeboozer

You have laxed back into debating the science again....

Mike

Posted by squirecam bigfathairyguy

bigfathairyguy wrote:
What really should have been done from the start is just to say masks are required at Gencon. Then allowed event coordinators to choose if they will allow people to not wear masks during their event and put that in the event catalog.
That would have been the right compromise to protect people but balance enjoyment of the convention. 
This is just asking for trouble. People will thus get into multitudes of little disputes as to masks that Gencon staff would inevitably have to intervene, creating issues and headaches that are not necessary. 

Before the recent take back Origins was going to allow a GM to require a mask at their event but not require one otherwise. This would not have worked either.

Whatever Gencon decides, that is going to be the one policy that everyone is required to follow. Anything else is just asking for arguments fights and trouble. 

Posted by kevinrg

We can go round' and round' about masks, but I'm still expecting a bulk of cancellations by June from both people hoping restrictions were going to relax and from vendors/people concerned about growing case rates.   Ultimately, that will be what dictates if I come or not, not the masks since I never believed they were going to drop them.

That can't help Gencon financially in that you've now frozen out a subset of people that can't come and have a subset of people that won't come.  What you'll probably be left with is mostly before that were there in 2021 when it was masks/no vax and everyone was ok with that.

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