MTG @ GenCon
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Posted by traveller indyfoodguy
#26

indyfoodguy wrote:
 
It's certainly a tall task that I want nothing to do with myself.  That being said, some examples of yearly complaints include:

  • Not providing the list of events in a timely manner  Define timely, is it in the catalog before the con starts?
  • The price of admission (I personally don't mind the cost given the OK-ish prize support, however, considering the fact that non-paid judges end up running the show in place of Past Times employees, it's a little frustrating)  That is an issue for the judges not you, if they want to work for free(an assumption i don't believe is true) that is up to them.
  • The lack of space for casual play (this is likely a GenCon issue and not a Past Times issue)  By casual play, I assume you mean somewhere to play that isn't an event?  I see casual players everywhere that isnt being used by paid events (floors, hotel lobby, etc).
  • The lack of organization regarding the space - multiple events are moved without notice (once even DURING game play, for me) This could be an actual issue related to the event organizers (still not a Gencon responsibility)
  • The timeliness of the events (though if you've ever played at Past Times or another event hosted by them, you know this is all too regular) What, they start late, run long?  If they are late starting it can be brought to the attention of the GC coordinators that are usually in the area of large halls.
  • The cut-off time for scheduled events (this may be regulated by GenCon, though I am unsure)  That would be controlled by Gencon, but i've seen events added as the con is running so...
  • The lack of constructed un-scheduled events Yea, no, got nothing here.  Lack of un-scheduled events, really?
  • Failure to maintain a coherent prize wall system throughout the entire 4-days  Quality or just disorganized?
  • Scheduling events that will knowingly not draw interest in favor of events that will.  There were four of us playing Frontier one year.  There is no Legacy this year.  Seriously, why wouldn't they have daily legacy events?!  I would guess they schedule events based on what they think people will play and what judges they will have.

Anyway, there will be the same complaints this year as in past years.  I personally know multiple folks who have reached out to GenCon with these complains in hopes that there is something that can be done, but nothing ever is.  I really hate it, but not enough to not play.  It's just too convenient to walk to the convention center from home and play a ton of magic.


If you don't like it, organize your own group and run some events.  You don't have to organize every event for MtG but if you don't see the events you want get some friends together and do it yourself.  

Unless the organizers violate the Host Policy there isn't much that Gencon will do.  By the way, bullet point 4 IS the kind of thing that can get them in hot water.

Posted by mhayward1978 traveller
#27

traveller wrote:
indyfoodguy wrote:
 
It's certainly a tall task that I want nothing to do with myself.  That being said, some examples of yearly complaints include:

  • Not providing the list of events in a timely manner  Define timely, is it in the catalog before the con starts?
  • The price of admission (I personally don't mind the cost given the OK-ish prize support, however, considering the fact that non-paid judges end up running the show in place of Past Times employees, it's a little frustrating)  That is an issue for the judges not you, if they want to work for free(an assumption i don't believe is true) that is up to them.
  • The lack of space for casual play (this is likely a GenCon issue and not a Past Times issue)  By casual play, I assume you mean somewhere to play that isn't an event?  I see casual players everywhere that isnt being used by paid events (floors, hotel lobby, etc).
  • The lack of organization regarding the space - multiple events are moved without notice (once even DURING game play, for me) This could be an actual issue related to the event organizers (still not a Gencon responsibility)
  • The timeliness of the events (though if you've ever played at Past Times or another event hosted by them, you know this is all too regular) What, they start late, run long?  If they are late starting it can be brought to the attention of the GC coordinators that are usually in the area of large halls.
  • The cut-off time for scheduled events (this may be regulated by GenCon, though I am unsure)  That would be controlled by Gencon, but i've seen events added as the con is running so...
  • The lack of constructed un-scheduled events Yea, no, got nothing here.  Lack of un-scheduled events, really?
  • Failure to maintain a coherent prize wall system throughout the entire 4-days  Quality or just disorganized?
  • Scheduling events that will knowingly not draw interest in favor of events that will.  There were four of us playing Frontier one year.  There is no Legacy this year.  Seriously, why wouldn't they have daily legacy events?!  I would guess they schedule events based on what they think people will play and what judges they will have.

Anyway, there will be the same complaints this year as in past years.  I personally know multiple folks who have reached out to GenCon with these complains in hopes that there is something that can be done, but nothing ever is.  I really hate it, but not enough to not play.  It's just too convenient to walk to the convention center from home and play a ton of magic.

If you don't like it, organize your own group and run some events.  You don't have to organize every event for MtG but if you don't see the events you want get some friends together and do it yourself.  Unless the organizers violate the Host Policy there isn't much that Gencon will do.  By the way, bullet point 4 IS the kind of thing that can get them in hot water.

 This is beside the point.  "Run your own event" is not a response to these concerns, for many reasons, such as:

1. You will not be allowed to set up computers,printers, PA systems, a stage, permanent storage space on the gaming floor, registration desks, etc., etc. as Pastimes is.

2. You will not receive free magic product from Wizards of the Coast as an incentive to run your event, as Pastimes does.

3. You will not be provided volunteers to run and staff your events and provided rare cards or other incentives to compensate them, as Pastimes is (by WoTC, not by Gen Con)

4. Your events will not be sanctioned by WotC, and players will not accumulate various player rewards, as participants in Pastimes events are.

I'm not saying you can't have fun at Gen Con because of Pastimes.

I'm not saying you can't set up a magic event you and your friends would find fun at Gen Con.

I'm saying "run your own event" is not a response to concerns of "A large (largest?) EO who runs a huge number (the most?) events at  Gen Con and has some exclusive relationship with a huge gaming company routinely mismanage events year after year in a way that harm the Gen Con attendee experience."

Gen Con gives Pastimes an enormous amount of floor space, and an enormous audience, from which Pastimes generates a substantial amount of revenue (Pastimes is not a charity, they are at Gen Con to make money).  Gen Con could do the players a solid by using this leverage to cause Pastimes provide a better attendee experience.
 

Posted by indyfoodguy
#28

Man, I’ve never seen someone come to the defense of Past Times before.

Posted by traveller
#29

Since WotC seems to be the one backing past times, why are you complaining to Gencon to do something.  Gencon and WotC have no relationship.  WotC does not even come to gencon.

If they are violating the event host policy complain to gencon, they will do something about that, otherwise direct your complaints to WotC, since WotC is the company supporting PT.

PT isn't "given" space by Gencon, they rent it like every other group.  $5 a square foot.  +/- 10% depending on location.

None of the game companies have exclusive rights to run games.  if someone wants to run a MtG tournament they can.  And while MtG is huge, there are other groups that are just a large, Pazio (pathfinder/starfinder) and Baldman (D&D) both run huge events all day long (i think baldman does some 35k-40k seats over the 4 days).

And I'm not defending PT, I'm defending Gencon and pointing out that this isn't the company to complain to if you want some change.  To me it sounds like PT couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff.

 

Posted by njseahawksfan mhayward1978
#30

mhayward1978 wrote:
traveller wrote:
indyfoodguy wrote:
 
It's certainly a tall task that I want nothing to do with myself.  That being said, some examples of yearly complaints include:

  • Not providing the list of events in a timely manner  Define timely, is it in the catalog before the con starts?
  • The price of admission (I personally don't mind the cost given the OK-ish prize support, however, considering the fact that non-paid judges end up running the show in place of Past Times employees, it's a little frustrating)  That is an issue for the judges not you, if they want to work for free(an assumption i don't believe is true) that is up to them.
  • The lack of space for casual play (this is likely a GenCon issue and not a Past Times issue)  By casual play, I assume you mean somewhere to play that isn't an event?  I see casual players everywhere that isnt being used by paid events (floors, hotel lobby, etc).
  • The lack of organization regarding the space - multiple events are moved without notice (once even DURING game play, for me) This could be an actual issue related to the event organizers (still not a Gencon responsibility)
  • The timeliness of the events (though if you've ever played at Past Times or another event hosted by them, you know this is all too regular) What, they start late, run long?  If they are late starting it can be brought to the attention of the GC coordinators that are usually in the area of large halls.
  • The cut-off time for scheduled events (this may be regulated by GenCon, though I am unsure)  That would be controlled by Gencon, but i've seen events added as the con is running so...
  • The lack of constructed un-scheduled events Yea, no, got nothing here.  Lack of un-scheduled events, really?
  • Failure to maintain a coherent prize wall system throughout the entire 4-days  Quality or just disorganized?
  • Scheduling events that will knowingly not draw interest in favor of events that will.  There were four of us playing Frontier one year.  There is no Legacy this year.  Seriously, why wouldn't they have daily legacy events?!  I would guess they schedule events based on what they think people will play and what judges they will have.

Anyway, there will be the same complaints this year as in past years.  I personally know multiple folks who have reached out to GenCon with these complains in hopes that there is something that can be done, but nothing ever is.  I really hate it, but not enough to not play.  It's just too convenient to walk to the convention center from home and play a ton of magic.


If you don't like it, organize your own group and run some events.  You don't have to organize every event for MtG but if you don't see the events you want get some friends together and do it yourself.  Unless the organizers violate the Host Policy there isn't much that Gencon will do.  By the way, bullet point 4 IS the kind of thing that can get them in hot water.
 This is beside the point.  "Run your own event" is not a response to these concerns, for many reasons, such as:
1. You will not be allowed to set up computers,printers, PA systems, a stage, permanent storage space on the gaming floor, registration desks, etc., etc. as Pastimes is.
2. You will not receive free magic product from Wizards of the Coast as an incentive to run your event, as Pastimes does.
3. You will not be provided volunteers to run and staff your events and provided rare cards or other incentives to compensate them, as Pastimes is (by WoTC, not by Gen Con)
4. Your events will not be sanctioned by WotC, and players will not accumulate various player rewards, as participants in Pastimes events are.

 

1.  Not true.  You need to have permission.  You need to discuss and set it up ahead of time.  But you absolutely can have all of those things.
2.  Not true.  WotC does not only give out free magic product for prizing to Pastimes.  You'd be surprised at how willing companies are to provide prize support for events, even small events.  You might not get any, but a blanket statement that you won't isn't true either.
3.  Not true.  There are no WotC "volunteers" working for Pastimes at GenCon.  There were a few events last year that WotC employees ran in conjunction with Pastimes because it was celebrating MtG 25th anniversary, but that was strictly a one off thing. 
4.  True.  Although, I don't know any MtG players who would care if their results weren't submitted to WPN since the new "Magic Fest" OP system is such a shambles that Planeswalker Points are pretty much irrelevant now.

Posted by indyfoodguy traveller
#31

traveller wrote:
Since WotC seems to be the one backing past times, why are you complaining to Gencon to do something.  Gencon and WotC have no relationship.  WotC does not even come to gencon.
If they are violating the event host policy complain to gencon, they will do something about that, otherwise direct your complaints to WotC, since WotC is the company supporting PT.
PT isn't "given" space by Gencon, they rent it like every other group.  $5 a square foot.  +/- 10% depending on location.
None of the game companies have exclusive rights to run games.  if someone wants to run a MtG tournament they can.  And while MtG is huge, there are other groups that are just a large, Pazio (pathfinder/starfinder) and Baldman (D&D) both run huge events all day long (i think baldman does some 35k-40k seats over the 4 days).
And I'm not defending PT, I'm defending Gencon and pointing out that this isn't the company to complain to if you want some change.  To me it sounds like PT couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff.
 

Nobody’s harping on GC, guy.

Posted by buffythecatslayer
#32

Nobody’s harping on GC, guy.

You might want to reread this paragraph.  The poster is definitely suggesting that it's somehow Gen Con's job to make Pastimes do a better job, when it's not their job at all:
Gen Con gives Pastimes an enormous amount of floor space, and an enormous audience, from which Pastimes generates a substantial amount of revenue (Pastimes is not a charity, they are at Gen Con to make money).  Gen Con could do the players a solid by using this leverage to cause Pastimes provide a better attendee experience. 

Posted by indyfoodguy
#33

I know this is a nerd convention, but good lord.

Posted by roderick
#34

Okay, guys, chill. Don't make me use the Atomic Flamethrower on this thread. 

Roderick Robertson
Forum Coordinator 
Gen Con, LLC. 

Posted by traveller
#35

Posted by mhayward1978 buffythecatslayer
#36

buffythecatslayer wrote:
Nobody’s harping on GC, guy.

You might want to reread this paragraph.  The poster is definitely suggesting that it's somehow Gen Con's job to make Pastimes do a better job, when it's not their job at all:

Gen Con gives Pastimes an enormous amount of floor space, and an enormous audience, from which Pastimes generates a substantial amount of revenue (Pastimes is not a charity, they are at Gen Con to make money).  Gen Con could do the players a solid by using this leverage to cause Pastimes provide a better attendee experience. 


I think it's Gen Con's job to put on a good show.

Part of putting on a good show is holding EOs accountable for providing a good participant experience, by doing what is within the EOs control related to running a good event (e.g. start on time, have adequate staff and resources, run the events as advertised, etc.)

I'm surprised if people don't agree with this.

If you think Gen Con does not have a responsibility to handle Gen Con customer concerns about an EO who has problems every year - you're welcome to that opinion.
 

Posted by mhayward1978 njseahawksfan
#37

njseahawksfan wrote:
mhayward1978 wrote:
traveller wrote:
indyfoodguy wrote:
 
It's certainly a tall task that I want nothing to do with myself.  That being said, some examples of yearly complaints include:

  • Not providing the list of events in a timely manner  Define timely, is it in the catalog before the con starts?
  • The price of admission (I personally don't mind the cost given the OK-ish prize support, however, considering the fact that non-paid judges end up running the show in place of Past Times employees, it's a little frustrating)  That is an issue for the judges not you, if they want to work for free(an assumption i don't believe is true) that is up to them.
  • The lack of space for casual play (this is likely a GenCon issue and not a Past Times issue)  By casual play, I assume you mean somewhere to play that isn't an event?  I see casual players everywhere that isnt being used by paid events (floors, hotel lobby, etc).
  • The lack of organization regarding the space - multiple events are moved without notice (once even DURING game play, for me) This could be an actual issue related to the event organizers (still not a Gencon responsibility)
  • The timeliness of the events (though if you've ever played at Past Times or another event hosted by them, you know this is all too regular) What, they start late, run long?  If they are late starting it can be brought to the attention of the GC coordinators that are usually in the area of large halls.
  • The cut-off time for scheduled events (this may be regulated by GenCon, though I am unsure)  That would be controlled by Gencon, but i've seen events added as the con is running so...
  • The lack of constructed un-scheduled events Yea, no, got nothing here.  Lack of un-scheduled events, really?
  • Failure to maintain a coherent prize wall system throughout the entire 4-days  Quality or just disorganized?
  • Scheduling events that will knowingly not draw interest in favor of events that will.  There were four of us playing Frontier one year.  There is no Legacy this year.  Seriously, why wouldn't they have daily legacy events?!  I would guess they schedule events based on what they think people will play and what judges they will have.

Anyway, there will be the same complaints this year as in past years.  I personally know multiple folks who have reached out to GenCon with these complains in hopes that there is something that can be done, but nothing ever is.  I really hate it, but not enough to not play.  It's just too convenient to walk to the convention center from home and play a ton of magic.

If you don't like it, organize your own group and run some events.  You don't have to organize every event for MtG but if you don't see the events you want get some friends together and do it yourself.  Unless the organizers violate the Host Policy there isn't much that Gencon will do.  By the way, bullet point 4 IS the kind of thing that can get them in hot water.
 This is beside the point.  "Run your own event" is not a response to these concerns, for many reasons, such as:
1. You will not be allowed to set up computers,printers, PA systems, a stage, permanent storage space on the gaming floor, registration desks, etc., etc. as Pastimes is.
2. You will not receive free magic product from Wizards of the Coast as an incentive to run your event, as Pastimes does.
3. You will not be provided volunteers to run and staff your events and provided rare cards or other incentives to compensate them, as Pastimes is (by WoTC, not by Gen Con)
4. Your events will not be sanctioned by WotC, and players will not accumulate various player rewards, as participants in Pastimes events are. 
1.  Not true.  You need to have permission.  You need to discuss and set it up ahead of time.  But you absolutely can have all of those things.
2.  Not true.  WotC does not only give out free magic product for prizing to Pastimes.  You'd be surprised at how willing companies are to provide prize support for events, even small events.  You might not get any, but a blanket statement that you won't isn't true either.
3.  Not true.  There are no WotC "volunteers" working for Pastimes at GenCon.  There were a few events last year that WotC employees ran in conjunction with Pastimes because it was celebrating MtG 25th anniversary, but that was strictly a one off thing. 
4.  True.  Although, I don't know any MtG players who would care if their results weren't submitted to WPN since the new "Magic Fest" OP system is such a shambles that Planeswalker Points are pretty much irrelevant now.

I'm not saying things 1-3 are impossible. 

I'm saying if you and your buddies put together a few Magic events, you will not be able to get those things.

The point I'm making is "if you don't like Pastimes, just run your own event" is not a reasonable response to "this EO routinely puts events which are misrun."  The reasonable response is for Gen Con to ask the Eo to not misrun events.

My wording on #3 was poor, I meant:

B. You will not be provided free product/judge exclusive cards by WoTC as incentives for your volunteers.  

I don't believe WoTC would provide free product to anyone running M:tG events other than their official EO at Gen Con - but I could be wrong.  Are you aware of any examples of this happening?

 

Posted by traveller
#38

And this brings me back to my point, GC is not responsible for how well/poorly an EO does beyond ensuring they follow the basic host policy.  I get that the OP issue is that this EO couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff, but that still isn't a GC problem.  As long as the group continues to get people supporting their behavior they will have zero incentive to change.

Pasttims is a local game store in niles, IL.  Complain on their FB and website about how they run the events.  Complain on FB to WotC about how they organize the events.  But don't expect GC to make them change beyond following the host policy.  

You have a voice and you can make a difference, just make sure you are using it to talk to the people who need to hear it.

Posted by rutherfordr
#39

Gen Con does have a certain amount of influence in this situation, and it could start the conversation with Pastimes about the quality of their events.

For example, they could talk to whoever is in charge of Pastimes and say, "Listen, there have been a lot of serious problems with your events over the past few years, and it's affecting the quality of the convention experience for our attendees. What can we both do to help make your events better?"

Of course, we're not going to hear about that conversation on these forums, but I'd like to think that it might be happening.

Posted by indyfoodguy traveller
#40

traveller wrote:
And this brings me back to my point, GC is not responsible for how well/poorly an EO does beyond ensuring they follow the basic host policy.  I get that the OP issue is that this EO couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff, but that still isn't a GC problem.  As long as the group continues to get people supporting their behavior they will have zero incentive to change.
Pasttims is a local game store in niles, IL.  Complain on their FB and website about how they run the events.  Complain on FB to WotC about how they organize the events.  But don't expect GC to make them change beyond following the host policy.  
You have a voice and you can make a difference, just make sure you are using it to talk to the people who need to hear it.

oh, hunny. have you seen Past time’s Facebook page or twitch stream? Have you been to their store or at one of their events? It is nothing but the same complaints.

Posted by traveller indyfoodguy
#41

indyfoodguy wrote:
traveller wrote:
And this brings me back to my point, GC is not responsible for how well/poorly an EO does beyond ensuring they follow the basic host policy.  I get that the OP issue is that this EO couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff, but that still isn't a GC problem.  As long as the group continues to get people supporting their behavior they will have zero incentive to change.
Pasttims is a local game store in niles, IL.  Complain on their FB and website about how they run the events.  Complain on FB to WotC about how they organize the events.  But don't expect GC to make them change beyond following the host policy.  
You have a voice and you can make a difference, just make sure you are using it to talk to the people who need to hear it.

oh, hunny. have you seen Past time’s Facebook page or twitch stream? Have you been to their store or at one of their events? It is nothing but the same complaints.

I'm not your hunny, sweetums or boo, please don't speak to me in condescending or patronizing way, not everyone likes to be referred to in that way.

That said, stop supporting their events then.  If you keep enabling this behavior it will continue.  That is your only recourse now.  If people stop showing up to events, they will either stop having them, allowing another EO to step up, or they will fix the issues.  

 

Posted by matthias9 indyfoodguy
#42

indyfoodguy wrote:
traveller wrote:
Since WotC seems to be the one backing past times, why are you complaining to Gencon to do something.  Gencon and WotC have no relationship.  WotC does not even come to gencon.
If they are violating the event host policy complain to gencon, they will do something about that, otherwise direct your complaints to WotC, since WotC is the company supporting PT.
PT isn't "given" space by Gencon, they rent it like every other group.  $5 a square foot.  +/- 10% depending on location.
None of the game companies have exclusive rights to run games.  if someone wants to run a MtG tournament they can.  And while MtG is huge, there are other groups that are just a large, Pazio (pathfinder/starfinder) and Baldman (D&D) both run huge events all day long (i think baldman does some 35k-40k seats over the 4 days).
And I'm not defending PT, I'm defending Gencon and pointing out that this isn't the company to complain to if you want some change.  To me it sounds like PT couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff.

Nobody’s harping on GC, guy.

All due respect, but you seem surprised that people are defending Gen Con here.  Look back to the beginning -- you started this thread with a brief (2-sentence) post that included complaints "to never be corrected by GenCon".  If you want to complain about Pastimes, do so.  But, yes, you were making it about GenCon's failings.  

 

Posted by indyfoodguy traveller
#43

traveller wrote:
indyfoodguy wrote:
traveller wrote:
And this brings me back to my point, GC is not responsible for how well/poorly an EO does beyond ensuring they follow the basic host policy.  I get that the OP issue is that this EO couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff, but that still isn't a GC problem.  As long as the group continues to get people supporting their behavior they will have zero incentive to change.
Pasttims is a local game store in niles, IL.  Complain on their FB and website about how they run the events.  Complain on FB to WotC about how they organize the events.  But don't expect GC to make them change beyond following the host policy.  
You have a voice and you can make a difference, just make sure you are using it to talk to the people who need to hear it.

oh, hunny. have you seen Past time’s Facebook page or twitch stream? Have you been to their store or at one of their events? It is nothing but the same complaints.

I'm not your hunny, sweetums or boo, please don't speak to me in condescending or patronizing way, not everyone likes to be referred to in that way.That said, stop supporting their events then.  If you keep enabling this behavior it will continue.  That is your only recourse now.  If people stop showing up to events, they will either stop having them, allowing another EO to step up, or they will fix the issues.  
 

you got it.

the only reason i'll stop playing there is if there's another place walking distance from my home that offers endless magic events for those four days at a reasonable price.  like i said, not enough issues here to not go.  i'm super surprised how quickly you are to run to past time's defenses.  it's not like i'm sitting over here all alone complaining.  there are literal hundreds of the same complaints year-in and year-out regarding past times at gencon (not to mention other pt events).  all i've done is point them out. 

i'm not expecting things to be run perfectly (or even perfectly in my definition of the word).  this is a huge event with a million moving pieces and must be a royal pain the ass.  like i said, i'll never host my own event.  way too much work.  but i think it's ridiculous to ridicule someone for pointing out these flaws.  why can't people complain about them?  "host your own event" or "don't go" are not solutions.  you can't ostrich your way out of things.  if you disagree with my opinion (and other's) about how things are ran, then that's fantastic -- i'm happy there's one person who hasn't been pissed off about the way things are ran over there once in four days.

anyway, i started this thread to voice the yearly complaints that will inevitably come in.  i don't recall anyone running to pt's defenses in similar discussions on here in past years, but happy to have a discussion regardless.

Posted by indyfoodguy matthias9
#44

matthias9 wrote:
indyfoodguy wrote:
traveller wrote:
Since WotC seems to be the one backing past times, why are you complaining to Gencon to do something.  Gencon and WotC have no relationship.  WotC does not even come to gencon.
If they are violating the event host policy complain to gencon, they will do something about that, otherwise direct your complaints to WotC, since WotC is the company supporting PT.
PT isn't "given" space by Gencon, they rent it like every other group.  $5 a square foot.  +/- 10% depending on location.
None of the game companies have exclusive rights to run games.  if someone wants to run a MtG tournament they can.  And while MtG is huge, there are other groups that are just a large, Pazio (pathfinder/starfinder) and Baldman (D&D) both run huge events all day long (i think baldman does some 35k-40k seats over the 4 days).
And I'm not defending PT, I'm defending Gencon and pointing out that this isn't the company to complain to if you want some change.  To me it sounds like PT couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff.

Nobody’s harping on GC, guy.

All due respect, but you seem surprised that people are defending Gen Con here.  Look back to the beginning -- you started this thread with a brief (2-sentence) post that included complaints "to never be corrected by GenCon".  If you want to complain about Pastimes, do so.  But, yes, you were making it about GenCon's failings.   

i see your point, though to clarify, it wasn't my intention to put blame on gencon.  just meant to say that, "yes, people have complained to gencon in the past regarding these issues, but no corrective measures have been made from their end, at least as i can tell."  if gencon can do something about, i think they would.  maybe they can't.  i don't know.  frankly, i don't want to know.  i just want to play a ton of magic for four days relatively unimpeded by pt's crappy management.

though that being said, what's so wrong with someone pointing out that gencon missed the boat on something on a gencon message board, if it were the case?

Posted by traveller
#45

Sorry, maybe I'm not clear, at no point am I defending PT.  I get it, I said it before, they couldn't organize lemmings off a cliff.  

And there you go again, 

i see your point, though to clarify, it wasn't my intention to put blame on gencon.  just meant to say that, "yes, people have complained to gencon in the past regarding these issues, but no corrective measures have been made from their end, at least as i can tell."  <--that would be a criticism of GC.

And as it has been pointed out here, other than situations where PT ran afoul of the host policies, its not GCs job to make sure that PT has their act together.  If the events are where they say they are and start on time and are what was advertised in the catalog what more are they supposed to do.

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