housing WORST Ever
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Posted by adcjones squirecam
#276

squirecam wrote:
garhkal wrote:
ryanjamison wrote:
garhkal wrote:And this is what, the 2nd straight year they USED this lottery system, even AFTER the fiasco and all the heat it got last year..

Because the complaints are from people that lost out, and the complaint boils down to them losing out. But there is no way to prevent people losing out. Hotel rooms are scarce, and no system of allocating them will fix that. No matter what is put in place to give one person an advantage, it puts another person at a disadvantage.As much as people don't want to admit it, the reason why some people suddenly cannot get a connected hotel room after getting one for 20 straight years isn't because of the system that's been put into place, it's because attendance doubled in five years. People that were lucky the last few years were eventually going to have their luck run out.

True, this way everyone's equally borked over in the randomization, vice only having it be those who waited till the day after hotel booking came up...  (or later on the same day)..
BUT that doesn't make it better..
twosheds wrote:
garhkal wrote:
That's something i don't understand though.  IF other cities HAVE the capacity to host us hotel wise, AND has good infrastructure (busses or trams etc) to get people to and FROM the con, why should "walkability" matter? 

Just off the top of my head:

  • Personal needs.  People with disabilities or other medical issues who may have difficulties when staying remotely because it is difficult for long trips and/or they may have medication that needs to be kept in a refrigerator.
  • Convenience.  Staying offsite and having to rely on taxis or public transportation means I need to pad out my plans with extra time for the to/from commute.
  • Safety.  A lot of attendees like to partake at the nearby watering holes for a drink (or more) during the con.  Obviously being able to walk (stumble) back to your hotel room is a lot easier than getting a taxi or driving back to your hotel under the influence (PLEASE DON'T DO THIS).
  • Being near the action.  Unlike a lot of conventions where things happen 9-5 and then everyone scatters for the night, Gen Con is non-stop from Thursday morning until Sunday afternoon.  There have been multiple times that I've thought "hey, it's 2AM, I want to do a Magic draft".  Being able to simply walk over to the ICC makes that much easier.
  • Easier Coordination.  If I'm sharing a room with 3 other people, it is a lot easier to come and go as I please if I can walk to the hotel instead of trying to coordinate car rides with people.

Yes, there are places like Chicago and Vegas that can physically handle more people, but the "walkability" factor would be destroyed in places like that and would ruin the con for a great many people.Edit: Spelling


Thanks for the quick answer on that..  BUT it brings up a few more questions..
Such as for your first point - 'disability access etc - ..  Then we would need to see what % of attendees are disabled.  If not that many (say 10% or lower), then couldn't something be done to accommodate them, while not making it where everyone else has to also be in walking distance?  (tried to come up with a more in depth question here, but realized it MIGHT sound too political doing so, so just went with it as is for now)..On the Convenience issue - yes you need to add travel time.  BUT if having to add travel time, say 20 min before and after means MORE PEOPLE can come, then to Me that should be a no-brainer.. 
squirecam wrote:This is just not true.Trip advisor shows 31 hotels within a mile of the LVCC. Not to mention many of them are larger hotels with thousands of rooms.
Many more are within 1.5 miles and many have monorail service door to door with the LVCC.

Several people already griped about how un-kid friendly they see Vegas... 
Vegas is not un-kid friendly. That ended before the 90's. Not to mention that if you have to, you can choose Circus-Circus or a hotel like that to specifically cater to your kids.Some people find navigating the Indy homeless late a night a scary proposition for your kids. Would you let them walk 6 blocks in Indy alone at night?
I get it that people who drive dont want Gen Con to leave Indy. I live in vegas and I dont want it to leave Indy either.
But the convention has outgrown Indy. You have no light rail. No reliable safe public transport. And not nearly enough close hotels. Without these things the problem will only get worse.
There ARE other options. Gen Con needs to consider them.
Squire, I think the proof is in the pudding.  GenCon has looked into other cities and has made their decision multiple time to stick with Indy.  They're far more credible than you are regarding their finances, and they've deem Indy to be the best spot for the Con overall, and that while hotel space is an issue in Indy, Vegas has a multitude of other issues that Indy doesn't have, like distance from the east coast and midwest, overall prices for food and everything in general, and literal closeness of the Indy hotels to its convention center compared to Vegas' hikes from hotel to center, public transport exists in Vegas but it is terrible, and the vegas convention does not have the convention room space that indy does.  Vegas has more floor space, but most of Indy is done with smaller spaces for events.

Posted by roganca
#277

Posted by nascragman
#278

There are several reasons I'd be a lot less likely to attend a Vegas Gen Con, the cost and the heat being the top two.

Lots of people like to costume at Gen Con, and I doubt they'd be willing to walk 4 blocks in a wookie suit in a Vegas August.

And Vegas would involve a plane trip for many of the current attendees.  That and the increased hotel cost kill it for me.

Posted by aaronmlopez nascragman
#279

nascragman wrote:
There are several reasons I'd be a lot less likely to attend a Vegas Gen Con, the cost and the heat being the top two.
Lots of people like to costume at Gen Con, and I doubt they'd be willing to walk 4 blocks in a wookie suit in a Vegas August.
And Vegas would involve a plane trip for many of the current attendees.  That and the increased hotel cost kill it for me.

I would have to agree with nacragman here. Also, I wouldn't purchase as much at Gen Con if I had to fly as getting my stuff home would be an additional cost as well.

Posted by divachelle aaronmlopez
#280

aaronmlopez wrote:
nascragman wrote:
There are several reasons I'd be a lot less likely to attend a Vegas Gen Con, the cost and the heat being the top two.
Lots of people like to costume at Gen Con, and I doubt they'd be willing to walk 4 blocks in a wookie suit in a Vegas August.
And Vegas would involve a plane trip for many of the current attendees.  That and the increased hotel cost kill it for me.

I would have to agree with nacragman here. Also, I wouldn't purchase as much at Gen Con if I had to fly as getting my stuff home would be an additional cost as well.
I'd be in the "no" pile as well. I don't fly.

Posted by bith
#281

I can't believe people are still claiming Vegas is kid / family friendly...

Posted by rhone1
#282

No sense in even debating Vegas, especially knowing that "divachelle" above doesn't fly.  Gen Con isn't going anywhere for some time.  Indy is a great place for Gen Con, even with the tough time many of us have with housing.

Posted by nialith
#283

Indianapolis and the surrounding area (Marion County) had 22,191 hotel rooms available as of Fall 2016. So no one can say that Indy doesn't have enough hotel rooms available. Now the number of rooms attached or within a couple blocks of the convention center is a different story. We hosted the 100th anniversary of the Indy 500 last year where it sold out with an attendance of 300,000+ for the long weekend. If the city can handle that, (every hotel was virtually sold out) then it can handle 60,000 gamers. The old days of easily getting a close hotel are long gone though.  

Posted by divachelle rhone1
#284

rhone1 wrote:
No sense in even debating Vegas, especially knowing that "divachelle" above doesn't fly.  
I'm so glad to have impacted the decision-making so powerfully.

Flying is SO NOT my superpower. *snort*

Posted by bith nialith
#285

nialith wrote:
Indianapolis and the surrounding area (Marion County) had 22,191 hotel rooms available as of Fall 2016. So no one can say that Indy doesn't have enough hotel rooms available. Now the number of rooms attached or within a couple blocks of the convention center is a different story. We hosted the 100th anniversary of the Indy 500 last year where it sold out with an attendance of 300,000+ for the long weekend. If the city can handle that, (every hotel was virtually sold out) then it can handle 60,000 gamers. The old days of easily getting a close hotel are long gone though.  
This, I think, is the fundamental understanding that people need to get. 

A close, relatively inexpensive, hotel is no longer a given -- it is a luxury.  If that is make or break for some people, that is unfortunate, but it is what it is.  Moving the con to Vegas, or any other big city really, wouldn't change that.  GenCon would not be able to get a con block to artificially deflate prices anywhere else, so you'd still be seeing 300-500 dollar prices for rooms that are on par with the ones through the GenCon block now.

Posted by fethbone
#286

In Vegas they'd be able to get a lot more people from California and maybe even the Pacific Northwest and Colorado, but the loss of people from the East Coast and Midwest would probably be significant enough to make it not worth it despite that. The only reason I would be able to attend a theoretical Gencon Las Vegas is because I travel for work and earn miles- if it wasn't for that I definitely would not be able to afford it. Not to mention if you think food and beverage is expensive in downtown Indy, it's even more so in Vegas. The heat is definitely a factor as well and if you've ever walked the Strip, it takes and feels longer to get anywhere than you would think when looking at the straight physical distance.

As far as Chicagoland, the two big convention centers there are McCormick Place Downtown and Donald E. Stevens in Rosemont. McCormick is huge, but the connected or very close hotel choices actually suck. Rosemont has close-walking distance hotels but I would not estimate any more than what's in downtown Indy. 

Posted by rhone1
#287

Maybe a 2nd Gen Con in the western part of the U.S.?  Never mind, they already tried that, nobody showed up...even though Gen Con So Cal was awesome.  I wish they had given it a few more years.

Posted by roganca rhone1
#288

rhone1 wrote:
Maybe a 2nd Gen Con in the western part of the U.S.?  Never mind, they already tried that, nobody showed up...even though Gen Con So Cal was awesome.  I wish they had given it a few more years.
I wish I had gone. I was living in L.A. I blew it. : (

Posted by njseahawksfan
#289

The Vegas argument comes up with startling regularity.  I have yet to see any of the Vegas proponents able to overcome the issues of the expense, the heat, the non-family friendliness of the location.  I personally love Las Vegas, and I would never ever suggest that it's a good fit for GenCon. 

Posted by nascragman fethbone
#290

fethbone wrote:As far as Chicagoland, the two big convention centers there are McCormick Place Downtown and Donald E. Stevens in Rosemont. McCormick is huge, but the connected or very close hotel choices actually suck. Rosemont has close-walking distance hotels but I would not estimate any more than what's in downtown Indy. 

Donald E. Stevens would be vastly better, but it's out in the 'burbs.  It would put me in a conundrum.  It's half and hour from where I live, which would save me tons of money.  But then I'd need to drive and park every day.  Which I honestly don't want to do.

I want to game until late, drink til the wee hours, then stagger to a hotel room.

Posted by ytuni
#291

I think Indy is the right location for Gen Con. Is it perfect? No. But I don't think anywhere would be. Taking it to the coasts would greatly increase costs all around so it needs to stay in the midwest and I Indy appears to be the city is that vicinity. I think our problem with housing is just the fact that so many people want to be connected to the ICC for various reasons. Events like the Indy 500 see people come in for a couple nights, go to a designated place for their event and leave. Gen Con is probably one of the few where people place such an emphasis on being about to walk to all of their events. I hope the city and Gen Con can work together to solve the issues people are experiencing but I really don't feel that moving the Con would solve the issues.

Posted by fethbone nascragman
#292

nascragman wrote:
fethbone wrote:As far as Chicagoland, the two big convention centers there are McCormick Place Downtown and Donald E. Stevens in Rosemont. McCormick is huge, but the connected or very close hotel choices actually suck. Rosemont has close-walking distance hotels but I would not estimate any more than what's in downtown Indy. 

Donald E. Stevens would be vastly better, but it's out in the 'burbs.  It would put me in a conundrum.  It's half and hour from where I live, which would save me tons of money.  But then I'd need to drive and park every day.  Which I honestly don't want to do.I want to game until late, drink til the wee hours, then stagger to a hotel room.
I've been to events at both, and I agree that DES would be better for GenCon as well. I feel like McCormick is more suited to professional tradeshows and such.

Partaking in the festivities at all hours and the no worries of having a hotel are a big part of the con experience for my group and I too. At least you wouldn't have to spend the gas driving down to Indy. 

Posted by squirecam rhone1
#293

rhone1 wrote:
Maybe a 2nd Gen Con in the western part of the U.S.?  Never mind, they already tried that, nobody showed up...even though Gen Con So Cal was awesome.  I wish they had given it a few more years.
December was not a good time to hold it.

Posted by squirecam ytuni
#294

clscadden87 wrote:
I think Indy is the right location for Gen Con. Is it perfect? No. But I don't think anywhere would be. Taking it to the coasts would greatly increase costs all around so it needs to stay in the midwest and I Indy appears to be the city is that vicinity. I think our problem with housing is just the fact that so many people want to be connected to the ICC for various reasons. Events like the Indy 500 see people come in for a couple nights, go to a designated place for their event and leave. Gen Con is probably one of the few where people place such an emphasis on being about to walk to all of their events. I hope the city and Gen Con can work together to solve the issues people are experiencing but I really don't feel that moving the Con would solve the issues.
Every other major convention city has shuttles/light rail.

Gencon doesn't seem interested in trying to work out a shuttle arrangement anymore.

Posted by roganca squirecam
#295

squirecam wrote:
clscadden87 wrote:
I think Indy is the right location for Gen Con. Is it perfect? No. But I don't think anywhere would be. Taking it to the coasts would greatly increase costs all around so it needs to stay in the midwest and I Indy appears to be the city is that vicinity. I think our problem with housing is just the fact that so many people want to be connected to the ICC for various reasons. Events like the Indy 500 see people come in for a couple nights, go to a designated place for their event and leave. Gen Con is probably one of the few where people place such an emphasis on being about to walk to all of their events. I hope the city and Gen Con can work together to solve the issues people are experiencing but I really don't feel that moving the Con would solve the issues.
Every other major convention city has shuttles/light rail.Gencon doesn't seem interested in trying to work out a shuttle arrangement anymore.
So your argument is that Indianapolis is actually the worst major convention city. Moving almost anywhere would be an improvement.

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